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AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

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31–40 of 174 posts

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#31
post #27
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The AI lawyer tells the defendant what to say in real-time, through headphones. Yeah - and I wonder what will happen if it starts telling the defendant to say things which aren't grounded and rooted in fact, or which contradict things they previously said or submitted in writing. Not sure a generative model is the best way to keep people clear of obvious cases of perjury/lying under oath etc.

Yes. If its one thing we've seen ChatGPT and the like struggling with, it's internal consistency and keeping the whole text coherent and tied to some fundamental overarching thread or strategy. To play devil's advocate though, would a layman without AI help be any better at navigating this?

Answer - probably not.

But courts are very likely (in my view) to take a very very dim view of the introduction of some kind of barrack-room "AI lawyer". It will slow things down by introducing potentially spurious arguments which wouldn't have been made by either a represented party, or unrepresented party.

Given the courts are a public service, this isn't necessarily zero sum - unrepresented parties do take longer in court, but I very strongly suspect in the life of a whole case, parties with an aspiring barrack-room AI lawyer will take up more court time. Especially if their argument loses coherency or starts to contradict itself.

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#32
post #15
post #6

>The ultimate goal, according to Browder, is to democratize legal representation by making it free for those who can't afford it, in some cases eliminating the need for pricey attorneys. this is the core issue I have with companies and tech like this: they try to solve social issues with technology and business. the issue of accessible defense is an issue of institutional failure that rests on the shoulders of the st…

I disagree. Technology is the perfect solution for problems like these. So many societal issues today arise because systems developed centuries ago cannot keep up with a population that has grown exponentially since then. Tech's core feature is being able to scale. There will be more and more systemic reliance on automation and AI as time goes on, since that's the only sensible way out.

Tech often misses obvious downsides, especially human, in pursuit of unrealistic idealism.

A good lawyer is not just knowledgeable of law, but of people. He needs to get 12 people in front of him to agree with him. And he may even be actively misleading them when he's defending a someone whom he knows to be guilty. This comes down to reading people, reading reactions, and understanding what each of those 12 people needs to hear to have them act like he wants. Not coincidentally, the most common background of politicians: lawyers.

I'd argue that the most likely scenario here is not closing the divide but widening it. Instead of public defenders, poor people will just get the bot, while those of means will get lawyers. It's akin to tech support today. In the not so distant past, it was easy to get a human on the line. Now in many cases unless you're a "special" client, or get your issue on the front page of some big social media site, you get the bot. And it sucks.

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#33

No it won't since it's illegal. "At no time at any location within the courthouse may any electronic device be used to make a photograph or recording in any fashion, whether audio, video or otherwise." https://www.lawd.uscourts.gov/possession-and-use-electronic-...

This is covered in the article, and they apparently think that it could be legal in two out of 300 courtrooms. You've linked to just one specific court's webpage.

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#34
post #15
post #6

>The ultimate goal, according to Browder, is to democratize legal representation by making it free for those who can't afford it, in some cases eliminating the need for pricey attorneys. this is the core issue I have with companies and tech like this: they try to solve social issues with technology and business. the issue of accessible defense is an issue of institutional failure that rests on the shoulders of the st…

I disagree. Technology is the perfect solution for problems like these. So many societal issues today arise because systems developed centuries ago cannot keep up with a population that has grown exponentially since then. Tech's core feature is being able to scale. There will be more and more systemic reliance on automation and AI as time goes on, since that's the only sensible way out.

Please let me tell how technology has scaled technical support/customer support in favour of the customer in companies like Google or Facebook?

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#35
post #4

> the company's AI-creation runs on a smartphone, listens to court arguments and formulates responses for the defendant. The AI lawyer tells the defendant what to say in real-time, through headphones. Based on AI’s propensity for being confidently incorrect, I’m not sure I’d want to be repeating AI output in a court of law and representing it as truth.

But this xan be be a. ery good complement to an actual layer. The layer would spend less time preparing (so cheaper) and will basically direct the IA and act as safeguard when the AI gets so confidently incorrect.

Hopefully these IA layers will still have a paralegal proofreading.

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#37
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Technology is the perfect solution for problems like these. So many societal issues today arise because systems developed centuries ago cannot keep up with a population that has grown exponentially since then. Tech's core feature is being able to scale. There will be more and more systemic reliance on automation and AI as time goes on, since that's the only sensible way out.

Tech often misses obvious downsides, especially human, in pursuit of unrealistic idealism. A good lawyer is not just knowledgeable of law, but of people. He needs to get 12 people in front of him to agree with him. And he may even be actively misleading them when he's defending a someone whom he knows to be guilty. This comes down to reading people, reading reactions, and understanding what each of those 12 people ne…

If poor people can only get the bot, that means the Constitution was changed. I don’t see how that could be the tech’s fault. It’s more likely that the AI would free up public defenders from things like having to answer their clients’ questions, as they could just ask the AI, allowing them to be more effective.

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#38
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The AI lawyer tells the defendant what to say in real-time, through headphones. Yeah - and I wonder what will happen if it starts telling the defendant to say things which aren't grounded and rooted in fact, or which contradict things they previously said or submitted in writing. Not sure a generative model is the best way to keep people clear of obvious cases of perjury/lying under oath etc.

Well, INAL, but during the legal interactions I had, none of which was in the US or got to actual trial, whenever the clients didn't follow the legal guidance of the lawyer, the lawyer was not accountable. Heck, even if you follow your lawyer's advice, the lawyer isn't accountable for the outcome. Only for the correct conduct of his practice. So I'd say, in this AI-supported court case (for speeding ticket after all)…

Clients not following their advice is always going to happen, and it's not the lawyer's problem as you say. And indeed, the lawyer can't (and historically in many jurisdictions shouldn't be creating compensation structures which imply they can) guarantee the outcome.

I agree the defendant is likely to be on their own, and I'm wondering whether the individual concerned is aware of this. The company seems to be willing to backstop their ticket if they lose.

I'm not sure that will help much if they are sent to jail for a few days for wasting court time for relatedly lying under oath or talking themselves into a generative AI's web of inaccurate statements. Such a follow-up suit would be both hilarious and interesting to follow indeed.

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#39

Can we get AI to help us find loopholes in bureaucracy that plutocrats try to exploit in order to keep the working classes down? Because that's something Ian Banks would smile at, from wherever he is rest his soul.

> Can we get AI to help us find loopholes in bureaucracy that plutocrats try to exploit in order to keep the working classes down?

Those are not exactly a secret. The entire reason for those loopholes to exist is for the rich to be able to exploit/use them.

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#40
post #15
post #6

>The ultimate goal, according to Browder, is to democratize legal representation by making it free for those who can't afford it, in some cases eliminating the need for pricey attorneys. this is the core issue I have with companies and tech like this: they try to solve social issues with technology and business. the issue of accessible defense is an issue of institutional failure that rests on the shoulders of the st…

I disagree. Technology is the perfect solution for problems like these. So many societal issues today arise because systems developed centuries ago cannot keep up with a population that has grown exponentially since then. Tech's core feature is being able to scale. There will be more and more systemic reliance on automation and AI as time goes on, since that's the only sensible way out.

While I agree that technology is the solution I disagree AI has anything to do with this.

This "AI Lawyer" is about a traffic ticket. If we want to make things more fair while also enforcing the laws on the book it seems like the more straightforward tech solution is to improve traffic cameras/monitors such that tickets are given out more appropriately. Or, if it still goes to court, why not just have a system where someone can represent themselves with a form or checklist which points out the reasons they were given a ticket by mistake?

Perhaps this is a good business model in the current system but its definitely not the best for society as a whole. Why do we need lawyer of any type to handle something as banal as speeding tickets?

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