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Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

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Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#251

Post by closeparen »

amelius wrote: post #239
antiterra wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> also the B-brand, which has seen it fit to replace most of the controls in some of its cars with a single multi-function stalk (iDrive, I think?) that isn't good for anything, except as a reason to return your car for a refund This is exaggerated and inaccurate. I have a recent BMW and it has numerous physical controls for climate, radio and various settings like auto-hold or disable engine auto-stop/start. The mul…

Ok, but don't you agree that touchscreen controls look very cheap compared to real knobs? Shouldn't that be a factor too, especially in higher end cars?

The luxury automakers’ most modern glass cockpits were first incubated in their highest end models and are only now percolating down to the entry/mid levels, so no unfortunately I don’t think they read as cheap, they read as “oh awesome! just like an S class now!”

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#252

Post by afandian »

thrdbndndn wrote: post #186
afandian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Tesla FSD video[0] the driver spent a lot of time swiping back and forth on the map. If that touchscreen were an iPad, that behaviour would be illegal in the UK. I don't know what the road law is in the US, and if they sell the same Tesla model in the UK. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34268454

Your reference is a link to your comment, not a video.

Oh sorry. Made a mistake, it was meant to be the discussion thread. Can't edit now.

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#253

Post by willnonya »

ajross wrote: post #204
HelloNurse wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a difference between taking your eyes off the road momentarily to look at a simple predictable display in a fixed location, like a light or a needle or a fixed text display, and taking your eyes off the road indefinitely to look at a screen that displays something unpredictable, complex and arbitrary as part of an interactive session, usually with animations.

Do you refuse to ride in Ubers, or avoid Amazon delivery vehicles? I have to admit that the level of tech-denial in this thread seems to be getting out of hand. Everyone uses in-vehicles maps. Everyone deploys them on touch screens. They're pervasive and everywhere, and none of the arguments change when you bolt them to the dash. Why is "Tesla" being held to a different standard than UPS/FedEx/Amazon/Uber/Doordash/et…

Things did get diverted on a maps drove tangent but that usually on our pose to enable the same argument you're making now.

The argument started by asking why windshield wipers, environment controls or basic radio functions need to be buried in a touch screen.

Also most vehicles limit what's allowed in navigation screens while the vehicle is moving. Which is annoying when it prevents a passenger get from using it but sensible when there is a single driver.

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#254

Post by willnonya »

ajross wrote: post #193
cal85 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They absolutely make finding your way around [...] safer How so? Not disputing, just curious what you mean.

Getting lost and staring at a map is vaguely dangerous. Having a map that gets you a clear answer faster is safer. This really doesn't seem controversial to me, it only seems so in this thread because "Tesla". If you frame it in other ways, it seems more obvious. Is anyone demanding that FedEx drivers or Doordashers use paper maps? Should your Uber driver pull over every time the route changes?

I agree that GPS makes finding where you are easier but it's a fallacy to pretend maps are hard to use. Anyone with an IQ above room temperature should be able to locate themselves on a map. It's only when you become so oblivious to your surroundings because you only know how ot listen to the GPS that this seems difficult...

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#255

Post by willnonya »

ajross wrote: post #135
jquery wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carplay (and presumably Android Auto, although I only have experience with Carplay) have the best car maps, and they are unavailable in a Tesla.

That's... no, I think that's just objectively wrong. Have you actually used all these systems? Display latency in the device-remote schemes is really pretty awful, where the Tesla screen scrolls like butter. Obviously no one is an expert on all these things, but I watch friends' vehicles and the occasional rental, and it's really not close. I went quickly to youtube to check, and pulled up this comparatively recent M…

You touch on one of the key problems here. "Not showing the current UI". Allowing cars to follow the same ui refresh cycle as cell phones undermines the predictability of operating the vehicle.

There has to be a balance between the "always new" and "never updated" approaches here.

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#256

Post by Tagbert »

Scubabear68 wrote: post #243
judge2020 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you try another device? This could be caused by anything from the phone's GPS to Google Maps running slow.

Not sure where the problem is. If I stop at a light I see it slowly catching up.

Sounds like a problem with your phone’s GPS system not updating quickly enough.

Alternately, if this is a very urban area with lots of skyscrapers GPS may wander significantly as the signals bounce around the buildings.

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#257

Post by karmelapple »

croes wrote: post #197
karmelapple wrote: post #177

As a junior systems engineer, I thought touchscreens and iPhone-like animations would be really neat, and give pilots more context, for helicopter GUIs. My senior human factors engineer told me no way. I begrudgingly agreed. Then I tried riding in a helicopter. Oh my gosh my eyes were opened. Real buttons. No animation. Everything else is vibrating and busy enough already. Human factors engineers working on airplanes…

Touchscreens always require eye contact, knobs don't. Ever used a remote control with touchscreen instead of buttons?

Apple TV tactile remote that ships with it, vs the simulated one you can use on an iPhone.

One requires no looking, one totally requires it.

I hope for tactile screens in the future, something I tried designing into a hardware prototype over 10 years ago for an Android phablet prototype to be used in scenarios to enable not looking at the touchscreen. I’m honestly still amazed tactile affordances in some way haven’t made it to the mass market yet.

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#258

Post by tharkun__ »

ajross wrote: post #204
HelloNurse wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a difference between taking your eyes off the road momentarily to look at a simple predictable display in a fixed location, like a light or a needle or a fixed text display, and taking your eyes off the road indefinitely to look at a screen that displays something unpredictable, complex and arbitrary as part of an interactive session, usually with animations.

Do you refuse to ride in Ubers, or avoid Amazon delivery vehicles? I have to admit that the level of tech-denial in this thread seems to be getting out of hand. Everyone uses in-vehicles maps. Everyone deploys them on touch screens. They're pervasive and everywhere, and none of the arguments change when you bolt them to the dash. Why is "Tesla" being held to a different standard than UPS/FedEx/Amazon/Uber/Doordash/et…

I would say because Tesla is doing something similar to this (well, not the ditching, but the bad part that comes before the eventual ditching) and basically what the study found:

    Navy ditches touchscreens for knobs and dials after fatal crash
https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/11/navy-ditches-touchscreens-...

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#259

Post by rawgabbit »

A diesel locomotive has my ideal user interface[1]. (a) For non critical operations, it has smart displays similar to an airplane cockpits. Physical function keys perform different things depending on the screen the smart display is presenting. (b) For critical operations, physical switches and levers are clearly labelled to show what they do,.

I would say the best UI is one where you can talk someone through an emergency over the phone. e.g., "Mayday. Help. The locomotive engineer just passed out and I don't know how to stop this thing." "Are you sitting on the right seat? The operator's seat? Look to your left, you will see two blue levers marked throttle and dynamic braking etc."

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ0yIZgQeE&list=LL&index=14... (skip to the 20 minute mark)

Re: Study finds that buttons in cars are safer and quicker to use than touchscreens

#260

Post by karmelapple »

hallidave wrote: post #220

On commercial aircraft, which have more of a safety culture than cars, they go so far as to have different knobs and buttons with different shapes so that a pilot can tell by feel that they have right one. For example, the knob to change speed is a different shape than the knob to change heading. Here's the autopilot panel of an Airbus A320: https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/overhead-panel-airb...

Exactly the kind of systems I worked on. The human factors engineering that goes into these is typically fantastic, with most aspects of interaction very thoughtfully crafted.
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