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How transportation technologies shaped empires

unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com

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Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#281
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a big part of "the word for world is forest". A colony on one planet has essentially become self governing, until one day a ship delivers an instantaneous communication device, at which point the planet is back under imperial control. There's more to the story than that ofc There's also "The Dispossessed", where an anarchist movement travels to a distant planet in order to set up their own government.

> anarchist movement > set up their own government I'm pretty sure I get what you mean but I found that funny.

One has to use words for contrast, lest the fish who don’t know what water is get confused.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#283

My understanding is that the British Raj was several months away from London?

I didn't write the article so I don't care either way, but I think the British Empire was a thing totally on its own. Probably (probably, I'm not a historian) because its technology (both physical and organizational) was so much more superior to the lands they invaded that the normal "laws of empire physics" didn't apply.

In Australia (and NZ, and Canada, and the US, and probably in South Africa to a certain degree) their mode of operation seemed: reduce the locals to nothing (even worse than Spain), then build a fully Western-like society. Clean slate, mostly self-governed by white people who are not inclined to fight with Europe (with notable exceptions, obviously)

In India - although I don't doubt for a second they killed many many people - they seemed to operate more like the Golden Horde in Russia: as long as you pay the taxes (and occasionally provide more stuff when we run out), you can keep your culture and be governed by your local warlords, because it's just too tedious to kill all of you at once. The British did seem to have a bit more sway though, for example when they kicked off the partitioning, millions of people started moving. However, largely it seems like a brutal but mostly hands-off rule (based on mutual benefit with the local elite?)

What they did in Africa was something else, I've read books about insanely remote places like South Sudan or Zambia, and what were they doing there is hard for me to understand at all. But again, the gap in technology between the local people and them was so vast that they could do whatever they wanted without much coordination with the capital.

The Romans and other empires of the past were different because they didn't have such a huge technology gap. In case of Romans, you still fight it out with spears, swords and bare hands, and they tended to take over the lands completely, and impose their own gods, order and culture, which is much harder to do with a similar level of technology and does require coordination with the capital.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#285

Travel time is more important in wartime. It's quite hard to conquer a place if your supply lines are too long. But if you do conquer, you can hold it for a long time with much less effort. I found this part of the article to be nonsense: Alexander the Great conquered most of the “known world” of his day. But his conquests took them 10 years, and after his death, the empire was split in six. Which further proves that…

[flagged]

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#286
post #22

This is taken from Caesar Marchetti’s work on the invariance of certain parameter, related is his work on city size: http://www.cesaremarchetti.org/archive/electronic/basic_inst...

on my machine this pdf is barely readable, here's a copy https://pure.iiasa.ac.at/id/eprint/4071/1/RR-95-04.pdf

(hope it's not a problem for the author)

ps: as a sidenote, I remember someone saying that the invention of fridges is a factor in the evolution of cities/transporation too. Never found solid work on this but it makes sense, you keep things closer if you can't conserve food.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#287
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a big part of "the word for world is forest". A colony on one planet has essentially become self governing, until one day a ship delivers an instantaneous communication device, at which point the planet is back under imperial control. There's more to the story than that ofc There's also "The Dispossessed", where an anarchist movement travels to a distant planet in order to set up their own government.

> anarchist movement > set up their own government I'm pretty sure I get what you mean but I found that funny.

It's a poor summary anyway.

The Dispossessed describes an anarchist society on the impoverished moon of a verdant planet, and a scientist's struggle to reconcile his anarchism with his wish to further his research, which requires more resources than the anarchist society can provide. It is one of my favourite books.

I also don't remember distant communication being relevant for The Word for World is Forest. That's far more about the conflict between the natives and the colonizers, and passive vs. aggressive societies.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#288
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can hypothetically keep 120 military ships en route to the colony at all times so that a forceful response is always at most one month away.

> You can hypothetically keep 120 military ships en route to the colony at all times so that a forceful response is always at most one month away. One problem with that idea is that either the king's forces would be spread very thin or they would be massively (and expensively) oversized.

Just make most of your economy based on mass manufacturing weapons and vehicles, problem solved

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, sometimes, centralized decision makers take decisions that are bad because they are too far removed from the consequences of the decisions. For instance, decisions on, say, water rights, made by the federal government in the US. The federal and state governments have effectively collaborated to create a slow rolling disaster across the entire west. (Of course, now I think about it, local and state gover…

> So there really is no "good" way to solve the "decision making" problem. Insofar as humanity hasn't yet figured out how to make good decisions all the time ;-) that's true. However, I posit that keeping decisions at as low a level as possible lets mistakes be more easily undone by higher levels in the hierarchy; hence Justice Brandeis's laboratories of democracy.

That might work, for everyone except the slave waiting for the central authority to come liberate them.

There really is no way around it, local, state, or federal power have all been shown by history to be guaranteed to screw people over.

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