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How transportation technologies shaped empires

unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com

251–260 of 313 posts

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#251

Our last planet, Neptune, fits neatly within one light-month. The rest of the heliosphere does too, but not the Oort cloud. Looks like empires are purely solar system affairs. Sci-fi authors take note.

Article is a little light on details with regards to why the author believes this effect exists. I have to imagine that their thinking is that application of force is limited to the distance you can travel one month instead of anything that would relate to the application of soft power (e.g. communication).

Supplying a ground based force follows more of a square-cube law. You need to feed your horses to transport your food to feed your soldiers. Going further means more food for the horses to carry the food for the horses to carry the food for the soldiers. There is an excellent post here that explains this far better than I ever could: https://maximumeffort.substack.com/p/the-tyranny-of-the-wago...

Any limitations on space based empires, while similar, are going to follow somewhat different rules depending on the tech involved. Unlike horses, once you launch you don't really have an opportunity to resupply a space based force going a long distance without inordinate energy expenditure. I'm not convinced force projection over a galaxy would be a problem for a civilization capable of travel at a significant fraction of the speed of light. Solving one problem (travel) necessarily solves the other (distribution of force).

I think the bigger question is more, why bother? What possible reason could a civilization have to go to war at that scale? Human civilization would need to change so much to get to that point that I'm not certain these are questions are explorable at our place in the timeline. We'd be like Romans dreaming about a better abacus.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History of Empire, History of Travel Technology, and History of Communications Technology are huuuuge fields with tons of professionals working today. I'm a little concerned about huge claims being made about empire by a Stanford MBA and a community of people mostly experienced in software and tech. The historians would love for you to read their books! AHA is literally happening right now ! Go to bars in Philly and…

Yeah, but software engineers are better at many things than professionals in their fields. The classic example is Jeff Bezos and gang stopping their companies from flying people to/from China a month before US authorities reacted to COVID-19. They also cancelled conferences two weeks before shelter-in-place and asked people to work from home. Tech professionals said that masks would help in the early stages while the…

I....

Software Engineers are not better at making accurate historical claims than historians. I'd be fucking baffled if "new insights about history come from technologists" in any meaningful quantity. Like, it'd be among the most surprising thing involving human behavior I could imagine. Like, what software engineers do you know that have spent even a minute working in an archive?

I see no way that this comment could be made without just a complete ignorance of the profession of history.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#253
post #96

>This also helps explain for example why feudalism was so prevalent in Europe during the Middle Ages. Without well-maintained Roman roads, the time needed to go from one place to another extended, which made it that much harder to control big empires. Small, local warlords emerged. They were the ones with enough money to afford a horse and armor This point is another reminder for me that Game of Thrones' Westeros, th…

Also the stability of the Kingdoms of Westeros is ridiculous given their ages. Supposedly they were divided into the Kingdoms of the North/Vale/Iron Islands/Reach/Rock/Stormlands/Dorne in the Age of Heroes - 10,000 years before the Targaryen conquest. 10,000 years is twice as long as all of recorded human history. In that time on earth, dozens of empires have risen and fallen. The center of civilization moved from the Middle East to Egypt to Greece to Rome to Byzantium & Arabia to western Europe to Britain to North America. Independent civilizations with equal claims to greatness sprung up elsewhere on the globe. Civilizations got conquered, technology advanced, genocides and plagues and famines happened, languages changed, and dynasties typically lasted a couple hundred years, if that.

Meanwhile, over in Westeros, the same 7 kingdoms have been ruled over the same geographic extent by the same 7 families at roughly the same level of technological development for 10,000 years. It took outsiders with dragons to conquer them. No explanation is given over how you could maintain what appear to be feudal structures over a 3000+ mile continent with bronze age technology.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but software engineers are better at many things than professionals in their fields. The classic example is Jeff Bezos and gang stopping their companies from flying people to/from China a month before US authorities reacted to COVID-19. They also cancelled conferences two weeks before shelter-in-place and asked people to work from home. Tech professionals said that masks would help in the early stages while the…

I.... Software Engineers are not better at making accurate historical claims than historians. I'd be fucking baffled if "new insights about history come from technologists" in any meaningful quantity. Like, it'd be among the most surprising thing involving human behavior I could imagine. Like, what software engineers do you know that have spent even a minute working in an archive? I see no way that this comment could…

I was assuming satire, but it really is hard to tell on the Internet...

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#255
post #9

Ghengis Khan, Queen Victoria, and Alexander the Great have entered the chat.

Alexander the Great and the Mongol empire are specifically addressed in the article. Maybe read before "entering the chat"?

RTFA and not write commentary off the cuff?

Hahahahahahahaha! You're funny, if not naive.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#256
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But for future interplanetary colonization, the rule would become one light month. Not very far. But imagine any form of communication taking years to bounce back and forth. That could not be centrally governed. It might not just be travel time, but it probably does correlate.

> But for future interplanetary colonization, the rule would become one light month. Not very far. But imagine any form of communication taking years to bounce back and forth. That could not be centrally governed. It might not just be travel time, but it probably does correlate. The rule seems too simplistic. What's so special about 1 month? Is the significant value time to communicate, time to move military forces,…

You can hypothetically keep 120 military ships en route to the colony at all times so that a forceful response is always at most one month away.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Dutch control of Java was more on paper than it was in reality. Most governance was devolved to local Rajahs who paid tribute to the VOC. Actual guns on the ground control across Java and most of what became Indonesia didn't really happen until the late 19th century Also, Goa's existence was because it was so marginal. The Mughals, Marathas, and various regional kingdoms didn't care enough about the Portu…

> The Mughals, Marathas, and various regional kingdoms didn't care enough about the Portuguese Sorry to be that guy, but Marathas cared deeply about Goa and they constantly waged wars against them and liberated most of the territory by 1739. Except tiny enclaves like Daman, Diu and Velha Goa most of the Provincia do Norte including the crown jewel of Baçaim (Vasai) was lost. Velha Goa, Anjidiva etc were saved by a st…

[deleted]

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#258

This neatly explains Afghanistan, i think. Fundamentally unnavigable for the entirety of written history!

Afghanistan was part of large empires like Kushans, Graeco-Bactrians, Achaemeniens, Mauryas, Mughals, etc for long periods. It was also a part of the Silk Route to India through Khyber pass and was the epicenter of Graeco-Buddhist art centers like Bamyan and Mes Aynak. It was not un-navigable.

Babur was probably the last man to hold the mountains with any seriousness, and he only held on for about a generation.

My general feeling is that "We control Afghanistan" said more honestly is something closer to "I am the mayor of Kabul!"

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History of Empire, History of Travel Technology, and History of Communications Technology are huuuuge fields with tons of professionals working today. I'm a little concerned about huge claims being made about empire by a Stanford MBA and a community of people mostly experienced in software and tech. The historians would love for you to read their books! AHA is literally happening right now ! Go to bars in Philly and…

Yeah, but software engineers are better at many things than professionals in their fields. The classic example is Jeff Bezos and gang stopping their companies from flying people to/from China a month before US authorities reacted to COVID-19. They also cancelled conferences two weeks before shelter-in-place and asked people to work from home. Tech professionals said that masks would help in the early stages while the…

I couldn't decide whether/how to vote as I couldn't work out if it was sarcasm. It seems like it must be, but it's written so earnestly.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#260
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But for future interplanetary colonization, the rule would become one light month. Not very far. But imagine any form of communication taking years to bounce back and forth. That could not be centrally governed. It might not just be travel time, but it probably does correlate.

> But for future interplanetary colonization, the rule would become one light month. Not very far. But imagine any form of communication taking years to bounce back and forth. That could not be centrally governed. It might not just be travel time, but it probably does correlate. The rule seems too simplistic. What's so special about 1 month? Is the significant value time to communicate, time to move military forces,…

Biology and more specifically lifespan being fixed through human history seems like a significant confounding factor here.

A 50 year trip isn’t such a big deal if people are living 100,000 years and have near perfect memory.

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