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The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

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Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#891

Post by rco8786 »

prottog wrote: post #882
rco8786 wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically it is maybe a median level outcome. Maybe. If you’re okay with your kids going to the worst public schools, living in an area with little to no amenities, shopping thrift stores, etc as a trade off to owning your home outright (which itself as a goal is dubious anyhow). And yea obviously wealth is relative. But to anyone accustomed to living in a reasonably developed country what you’re describing is no…

I'm doubling down because you haven't offered an explanation of what your counterfactual is. As best as I can guess, are implying that were something to be different, the outcomes will be different, whether that is that people who bust their ass will become truly wealthy (which again, you have not defined) or perhaps that people who don't bust their ass will also be better off. I want to know what that something is,…

I’m not sure why you could possibly want all of that information from me.

My original response was about how “kids these days” expect “ass busting results without the ass busting”, and I was pointing out that that is definitely not the case with OP’s job offer of $25-30/hr plus overtime, which is the exact opposite…ass busting without the results.

But if you must, Let’s say somewhere in the top 50% of asset holders is a reasonable line for “wealth”. Do with that whatever you like.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#892

Post by viraptor »

Manuel_D wrote: post #876
viraptor wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your competitors are offering cheaper, faster jobs why would they pick you? Quality and availability. Fewer better paid jobs in the pipeline means they can decide to pay extra for less waiting and a not-rushed job.

Non-rushed means more waiting, not less. Why would I pay extra for that?

You're missing the part where higher cost reduces your backlog, so there's lower waiting time overall. (I'm assuming there's backlog if the company is trying to rush jobs and allowing overtime)

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#893

Post by Vedor »

viraptor wrote: post #548
UncleMeat wrote: post #33

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

I feel like it's a weird situation when the pay is low, but there is overtime available and there's pressure to work fast. Why wouldn't a company raise prices, increase pay and slow down if there's more than a standard day of work available and customers ready/waiting? Is it more of industry issue or that specific company issue then?

For a short time I worked as a machine operator in a production company, automotive industry. The CEO used to yell during meetings on the production floor that "the production must be high quality, fast, and cheap; there is no 'choose two' nonsense".

Yes, the CEO was going down to yell on the blue collar workers making pennies.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#894

Post by wrycoder »

falcolas wrote: post #117
mfer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the case for all trades people. It might be a bad area or a bad employer. I've know trades folks who are electricians, plumbers, carpenters, work in road construction, etc. They typically work reasonable hours, have medical, and are paid at or above the median income for where they live. They didn't rack up debt getting into this either. This is not a bad deal for many people.

There's a semi-retired craftsman I watch regularly on youtube - Essential Craftsman. Almost all long-term success stories in the trades which he tells directly or gets from his friends involve transitioning from a tradesman to an employer. You're selling your health and body as a tradesman. If you can make the transition to running a trades business, then you're selling your brainpower more than your body. Success st…

If you were watching that channel, you'd know that he takes great pride in doing the work himself. In his latest series, he's building a garage/workshop for his son almost entirely by himself, just to show what can be done. He's amazing.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#895

Post by skissane »

pavon wrote: post #395
dionidium wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. Something strange is happening here that I can't quite understand. Jokes about English majors asking if you want fries with that are way older than me and I first started college in 1999. Yes, I heard a persistent low rumbling of "go to college," but the idea that "any degree would do" is alien to me. Of course I knew that some maj…

Here is what we were told repeatedly and constantly throughout middle and high school (mid to late 90s): * You should go to college. * You should do what you love. * Sure some jobs pay more that others, but that doesn't matter if you are doing what you love. What was completely left out of the discussion was that some degrees won't actually enable you to do what you love . They'll just load you with tons of debt, mak…

> They'll just load you with tons of debt, making it harder to even get by let alone do what you love as a side gig

That seems to be a somewhat US-specific problem. In many other countries, university education is much more affordable, in some cases even entirely free. In my country (Australia), the government pays two-thirds of the tuition cost of most undergraduate degrees, and will lend you the remaining third - while that debt is still a burden for some, it is nowhere near as bad as the US. Other countries (such as France or Scotland), the government pays 100% of tuition

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#896

Post by moate »

emodendroket wrote: post #768
moate wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former chef, I'll gladly take the extra few pounds and minor shoulder issues I've gotten as PM over scalding hot oil being poured on my arms or a meat slicer taking the tip of my thumb mostly off. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/False-E...

The examples in that article seem poorly chosen.

I don’t disagree but I needed something fast and it met the need.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#897

Post by moate »

WalterBright wrote: post #552
moate wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former chef, I'll gladly take the extra few pounds and minor shoulder issues I've gotten as PM over scalding hot oil being poured on my arms or a meat slicer taking the tip of my thumb mostly off. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/False-E...

My wood shop teacher started by showing us his missing fingers eaten by a table saw. Best safety lesson ever. I always think of that when using my table saw. Those meat slicers give me the heebie jeebies. Sorry about your thumb.

It’s fine, I ran to CVS and bought a bottle of super glue to patch myself up. Then I worked a 10 hour shift.

Still better than my grandfather who lost all the fingers on one hand to a hay bale elevator chain. It was after dark so while his wife drove him to the hospital the kids had to go look for them.

And then NPR writes insipid think pieces wondering why nobody wants to work in the trades anymore. If only we could put a finger on it…

(Edited for spelling)

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#898

Post by twic »

dionidium wrote: post #174
joecot wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a millennial. First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. So everyone went and got a college degree, and since so many people had it it wasn't a status symbol anymore, so that wasn't enough to get a good middle class job. And then a bunch of people were told they shouldn't have gotten those degrees and they were worthless. Then we were told to go into STEM. So lots of peop…

> First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. Something strange is happening here that I can't quite understand. Jokes about English majors asking if you want fries with that are way older than me and I first started college in 1999. Yes, I heard a persistent low rumbling of "go to college," but the idea that "any degree would do" is alien to me. Of course I knew that some maj…

I do think this was forgotten a bit in the mid-late '90s. In the UK, at least. Deindustrialization was really hitting, the "service economy" was booming, and the New Labour government realised that "number of people getting a degree" was a metric it could make go up by shoving more and more people into worse and worse courses. Nobody sat down and did an end-to-end analysis of society's needs. They just wanted headlines.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#899

Post by SergeAx »

Manuel_D wrote: post #871
SergeAx wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know nothing about nuts tighten patterns. I always tighten four bolts system diagonally because I saw how things could deform otherwise. But I took it from my own experience, not from some guy with the camera and strong wish to earn money from ads on cloud video platform. Also I am 100% sure that if I first pre-tighten bolts in a circular manner, and then make a second circle of full tightening - it will be okay, j…

A good YouTube tutorial would tighten bolts circularly and how the resulting deformation. This is my point: if the failure mode is illustrated in a way understandable by a layperson, it seems totally reasonable to trust the youtube tutorial over a contractor. After all, the contractor is looking to make money, just like the YouTuber.

> the contractor is looking to make money, just like the YouTuber

That's a very valid point. The question is who has more skin in the game. Contractors have more of a positive feedback: if I am satisfied, I will recommend them to my friends and relatives. YouTubers may have more of negative feedback (not that much since dislike button is gone), but it takes someone to call their bullshit and write a refuting comment. I don't think lots of core YouTube userbase is inclined to do so, the default behavior there is to make a "pffff" and swipe away.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#900

Post by csomar »

SideQuark wrote: post #99
Ancalagon wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d be surprised. Sometimes quality of life is better spent not working when you can lean on family and friends Or your own small retirement fund. Not saying someone’s life choices are right or wrong one way or the other in this case. I’m very grateful for my position but would be lying if I didn’t say I day dreamt occasionally about quitting work and living like a backpacker.

>Sometimes quality of life is better spent not working when you can lean on family and friends Or your own small retirement fund. And then when enough do, and the result becomes a lifetime of un/under-employment, then they want the retirements or lives of those before or around them, who do you think will pick up the slack? Sure, quit and be a backpacker. Doing it a while is fun, probably even healthy, but a lifetime…

They are the symptom the of a failing society not its' cause.
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