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Switzerland: snow flown in by helicopter in attempt to keep ski slopes open

switzerlandtimes.ch

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Re: Switzerland: snow flown in by helicopter in attempt to keep ski slopes open

#101

Post by jean_tta »

prottog wrote: post #75
danuker wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not worried about fossil fuel running out. That is because, as it becomes more limited in supply, it becomes more expensive. This will force people into reducing its use. Companies producing more efficient or alternatively-powered technology will gain the most. So, the market would address this. On top of this, OPEC playing games is also prompting importers to find alternatives. But I am indeed worried about the…

> as it becomes more limited in supply, it becomes more expensive. Not only that, current "proven reserves" are based on what's economical to extract. As the price of oil rises, we will find more oil.

With ever decreasing EROI though

Re: Switzerland: snow flown in by helicopter in attempt to keep ski slopes open

#102

Post by hutzlibu »

xeromal wrote: post #97
hutzlibu wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It’s not for the wealthy, it’s for the working class." I think the swiss working class is a bit better of, than those in the subsahara facing drought. They are in the need of transition funds. I also think it would not be helpful to ban helicopter snow transport or something populistic, but it is really not smart, trying to keep things artificial alife - like certain wintersport areas - by means that contribute to t…

You really need to contextualize the working class to the area we're in. Comparing your situation to the entire world's is a bit reductionist and useless as a comparison.

Yes, but I was referring to the person atop who said

"I’m not giving funds to rich ski towns."

Me neither. The swiss might do it themself, but I thought we are arguing here on a more global level.

Re: Switzerland: snow flown in by helicopter in attempt to keep ski slopes open

#103

Post by 4ggr0 »

hutzlibu wrote: post #90
toomuchtodo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not for the wealthy, it’s for the working class. Of course don’t compensate asset price destruction due to climate change except for those who have limited means. In my coal plant example, workers are typically close to retirement and have limited means. They aren’t financially independent, so they need something to bridge the gap between this painful transition and death. I apologize that wasn’t clear in my ori…

"It’s not for the wealthy, it’s for the working class." I think the swiss working class is a bit better of, than those in the subsahara facing drought. They are in the need of transition funds. I also think it would not be helpful to ban helicopter snow transport or something populistic, but it is really not smart, trying to keep things artificial alife - like certain wintersport areas - by means that contribute to t…

> I think the swiss working class is a bit better of, than those in the subsahara facing drought.

With such an argument we could drop everything we're doing in Switzerland, as we're probably better off than most other people in this world (by average).

Don't make the mistake to think that every Swiss citizen is well off. Very well off compared to the rest of the world, sure. But we have our own class of people who barely get through the month. (These people would be homeless and absolutely devastated in the US, so we have that going for us.)

The only income smaller ski regions have are winter sports. If this goes away, these regions will probably have some very difficult times. Now, I'm talking about the smaller ski regions with not that much wealth. Different story compared to Zermatt, St. Moritz etc.

> it is really not smart, trying to keep things artificial alife

I do agree with your main point! I also smh when I see all of the artificial snow machines which waste lots of water and energy, the tons of cars which travel to these regions, mass tourism etc.

Which doesn't mean that we can't also say, that the working class in these regions will be in serious trouble if we stop.

Which doesn't mean that we shouldn't stop. Complicated, I guess :)

Re: Switzerland: snow flown in by helicopter in attempt to keep ski slopes open

#104

Post by xeromal »

hutzlibu wrote: post #102
xeromal wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really need to contextualize the working class to the area we're in. Comparing your situation to the entire world's is a bit reductionist and useless as a comparison.

Yes, but I was referring to the person atop who said "I’m not giving funds to rich ski towns." Me neither. The swiss might do it themself, but I thought we are arguing here on a more global level.

Sorry for the confusion. I assumed that person was swiss. lol

Re: Switzerland: snow flown in by helicopter in attempt to keep ski slopes open

#105

Post by saiya-jin »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #32
Nowado wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until you hear about air conditioning.

Air conditioning is relatively efficient compared to driving a 2000 pound steel box 30 miles down the road (and back) to buy eggs.

This was 1 chopper doing private property management to increase its value, yet outrage here resembles end of world... lets be a bit smarter. Ie one can save 1000x more energy every year to resettle people from places like Phoenix to location where AC nor heating is not needed. We can sit all day coming up with fantasies what to ban to cut down energy consumption

Re: Switzerland: snow flown in by helicopter in attempt to keep ski slopes open

#106

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

nsxwolf wrote: post #95
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we take an approach of one at a time looking at each activity and going "is this going to stop global warming?" the answer is always going to be "no" and we're going to be left going "well, there's nothing we could do, we couldn't find any activity that would stop it". No single wasteful activity is going to stop it. We need to stop a lot of them. This could and possibly should be one of them.

This seems like me not taking the insurance money after the hail storm, and watching all my neighbors put free new roofs on. My insurance premiums go up anyway because of them, but I can feel good about myself paying for my roof out of pocket in a few years.

[flagged]

Re: Switzerland: snow flown in by helicopter in attempt to keep ski slopes open

#107

Post by DoughnutHole »

cplusplusfellow wrote: post #69
toomuchtodo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like coal plants, they’ll end up needing funds to transition to a new normal going forward. The next 100 years won’t be like the last 100 years.

I’m not giving funds to rich ski towns.

The residents of ski towns aren't rich just because they provide services for the rich. In Switzerland residents in the alps are generally poorer than those on the plateau.

Sure they're "rich", in the same way everyone in France, Italy and Austria are rich in a global context. But those areas are still going to need government support when the basis of their economy is wiped out.

Re: Switzerland: snow flown in by helicopter in attempt to keep ski slopes open

#108

Post by izacus »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #78
izacus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Global warming being caused in part by internal combustion engines and aviation results in less snow for skiers... Solution? Chopper some more snow in to counter the effects of I.C.E's and aviation. Huhmmmm.... Does anyone else spot a dichotomy in thinking here? Well, they're doing it to keep their income and profits coming. A major part of it in fact - probably half the yearly income. Since you're probably from a…

> Because that's really what you're asking here - are you going to take a 50% paycut and stop using your ICE vehicle forever? Only if everyone else does. I.e. a fossil fuel tax so high that it renders helicoptering snow for recreational activities untenable.

Exactly! That's the thing happening here - "I'm going to keep my convenience until everyone else changes their mind!" being used as an excuse to do nothing and just point fingers at others.

Re: Switzerland: snow flown in by helicopter in attempt to keep ski slopes open

#109

Post by dylan604 »

Sharlin wrote: post #96
samwillis wrote: post #58

This isn't a new phenomenon or something restricted to "exclusive" resorts. I have seen this happen in other alpine ski areas over the last 5-10 years when there has been particularly bad snow. Normally in places that are of high importance and traffic, such as at the top of main lifts. Ski resorts use helicopters for many logistical activities, if it keeps the area open they will do it. This year the Alps are having…

To be fair, "last 5-10 years" is pretty new. I doubt such measures were needed even a few decades ago.

I started skiing in the 80s, and even then they had snow machines to make snow when it was lean times. Seems much more practical than using helicopters.

Re: Switzerland: snow flown in by helicopter in attempt to keep ski slopes open

#110

Post by JCM9 »

The east coast of the US has long used extensive snowmaking capacity to keep slopes open. Most resorts in the east have plenty of cold air, but natural snow is iffy at best for long periods. It’s now common for resorts in the east to have 100% (or close to it) of the mountain equipped with snow guns. It’s not fluffy powder but creates a perfectly acceptable surface.

However if the problem these Swiss resorts are having is that it’s just consistently too warm them this is unfortunately probably the beginning of the end for them. Flying snow in via helicopters strikes me as trying to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.

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