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Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

economist.com

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Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#441

Post by jelliclesfarm »

md_ wrote: post #35
jelliclesfarm wrote: post #27

Tesla owns so much data that it has collected(and will only continue to amass more in the future)from its customers that it is the very definition of a successful tech company. Economist is an embarrassment for journalism.

That's an odd definition for "tech company." Is your point, though, that that data are valuable? If so, what for?

I feel like I am really at a loss to explain this .. if someone at HN doesny understand why data is valuable, I can add nothing to the discussion. My day job is farming a small plot of land.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#442

Post by jelliclesfarm »

dylan604 wrote: post #87
md_ wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an odd definition for "tech company." Is your point, though, that that data are valuable? If so, what for?

Selling to interested buyers to use that information in target ad campaigns? --I want to target my new car advertising campaign at any Tesla owner with FSD that recently had a wreck or near-wreck. --I want to target my bloated overpriced techy product that will collect all sorts of personal data specifically at Tesla owners as they are clearly okay with this behavior.

Regardless, that doesn’t NOT make Tesla a tech company.

Calling Tesla a ‘car maker’ is like calling Amazon a used bookseller.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#443

Post by tshaddox »

NickM wrote: post #431
tshaddox wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example the Kia EV6 specs list a max fast charging rate of 350 kW but what that actually means is that you need a 350 kW charging station to reach the car's actual max charging speed of 240 kW > it's really frustrating how hard it is to compare charge speed from different manufacturers Is the discrepancy just the inefficiency (i.e. waste heat) of the charging circuitry and/or battery chemistry? And if so, do di…

Is the discrepancy just the inefficiency (i.e. waste heat) of the charging circuitry and/or battery chemistry? I'm not positive on the specifics but I believe it has more to do with the combination of supported voltages/amperages offered by different chargers. i.e. a "350 kW capable" charger in practice means it can do 800V charging, which other chargers of lower kW ratings typically can't do, and the EV6 requires 80…

> A more relevant measure of charging speed would be something like "miles per hour at EPA rated efficiency", though even that gets messy since most cars don't charge at a linear speed.

Pretty much the only time charging speed even matters is the "road trip" mode, where you are driving further than a single battery charge in one day and you want to stop as little as possible. In that mode, all I really want to know is what my duty cycle will be, e.g. "every 5 hours of driving you'll need to stop to charge for 30 minutes."

If I'm not in road trip mode, then as long as I can Level 2 charge overnight and/or all day at work, I would barely care what the peak charge rate is. It would still be nice to have something quick for the rare pickle (and of course road trips), but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. I guess it's so prominent in marketing because range anxiety is still so deep in our mindset?

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#444

Post by dlivingston »

qazwse_ wrote: post #273
elisharobinson wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"carmaker" != "electric carmaker" , all other carmakers DO NOT make profitable EV's and require heavy subsidies to be in parity. Tesla has better margins because it is vertically integrated . Apple will NEVER make a car , cars require a totally different supply chain not as simple as moving a low mass objects like phones and PC's , ie cant move them multiple times across different continents. other car makers will ha…

>how long would it take for any other car maker to ship steam games and have 60 fps gaming on the car. I'm still young, but hearing about this kind of feature makes me feel like a luddite. I just don't get it. Is it so passengers can play while you're driving, or just to play while the car is charging/you're waiting somewhere?

Yeah, it's entertainment for passing the time while charging. Tesla has long had Hulu, Disney+, Netflix, etc. apps in their cars for this reason, along with a number of games.

It's pretty neat. It's really cool to go car camping and effectively have a portable mini-theater come with you.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#445

Post by recursive »

lostmsu wrote: post #388
recursive wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from playing music and texts, I prefer the native functions in my Ford system, over the Android Auto.

Can you name a few? Ford's maps being better than GMaps would be very surprising.

I don't know what the general consensus is, but all I can say is that I prefer the Ford map. For one, it integrates chargers into route planning.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#446

Post by FireBeyond »

jjeaff wrote: post #439
LarryMullins wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, in my experience most Americans start complaining if the heat isn't cranked up to 80F in the dead of winter. But come summer, everybody wants the AC cranked down to 60F. T-shirts in the winter and stylish jackets in the summer, nobody dresses for the seasons. Personally, I prefer an open window. Fresh air is almost always better than warm/cold stale air. But I think that'll kill a car's aerodynamics anyway, mayb…

You can set your ac or heat to pull air in from outside. With the added benefit that most nice vehicles have an outside air filter to filter the fresh air first.

Hell, higher end vehicles will even auto-switch to recirc air based on outside air quality (particulate count). Surprised me the first time I saw it on my Jaguar.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#447

Post by mavhc »

davewritescode wrote: post #122
mavhc wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's only competition is Chinese EV makers, everyone else can't make enough cars, and none of them are profitable. Tesla are 5-10 years ahead on profit, due to adopting cost savings such as no buttons, more miles per kwh, thus smaller batteries, casting most of the body in 2 or 3 pieces. And then there's in house software creation, vs everyone else. Software makes their use of their motors more efficient. That's b…

> And then there's in house software creation, vs everyone else. Software makes their use of their motors more efficient. You think automakers don't know about software? You do realize that what the ECU has to do to keep internal combustion engines running as efficiently as they do today is at least an order of magnitude more complex that electric motor management > That's before you have the problem with how to get…

Yes, automakers outsourced all their software, someone else made the ECUs.

https://www.teslarati.com/volkswagen-herbert-diess-third-par...

Tesla will be Tesla's supplier https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-19/tesla-con...

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#448

Post by mavhc »

altacc wrote: post #195
mavhc wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's only competition is Chinese EV makers, everyone else can't make enough cars, and none of them are profitable. Tesla are 5-10 years ahead on profit, due to adopting cost savings such as no buttons, more miles per kwh, thus smaller batteries, casting most of the body in 2 or 3 pieces. And then there's in house software creation, vs everyone else. Software makes their use of their motors more efficient. That's b…

It sounds like you're saying that Tesla has no competition if you ignore their competition. You can't be dismissive of Chinese EV makers, who are rapidly encroaching on western markets and are reshaping the motor industry. Here in Norway I'm noticing more and more Chinese EVs on the road and they are competing at all levels of the market, from "affordable" to high end. To add to those numbers, many originally Western…

Indeed, that's Tesla's only competition, BYD's numbers include hybrids though, and ASP is much lower.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#449

Post by kwhitefoot »

FireBeyond wrote: post #366
kwhitefoot wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The place where Teslas form the largest fraction of the car population is Norway. They don't seem to have more problems with winter than any other car brand. I have driven my 2015 Mode S 70D at 1000 m altitude, -20°C, on numerous occasions with no problems at all. My Model S is certainly better at handling the winter than a Nissan Leaf of the same vintage.

Most Norwegians in my experience are a lot happier wearing a woollen jumper or layers to cope with their weather, whereas many Americans are not happy unless their car is cranking to keep the interior at 72 while it's in single digits outside.

My driving in the mountains in the winter was in shirtsleeves and bare feet. No trouble keeping the interior of the car warm. Also because it is electric I can sleep in it and be kept warm without the risk of being poisoned by exhaust fumes or kept awake by the noise. There was one occasion when I had to move my car to the other side of the car park because someone parked their ICE car next to mine and left it idling all night while they slept. As this was in an otherwise silent landscape it was pretty annoying.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#450

Post by mavhc »

freejazz wrote: post #371
zaroth wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one absolutely love it. It doesn’t just look cool, it’s maximally functional for all of my use cases.

Yeah, I totally love having to take my eyes off the road in order to press any button in the cockpit. Truly brilliant design!

Which features do you have to take your eyes off the road to activate?
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