Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm • Hacker News Board

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#371

Post by freejazz » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #355

eatsyourtacos wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Minimalistic interiors, modern infotainment, mobile app performance, Which are all gimmicks. The vast majority of people don't want that from a car. I've been in Telsas plenty of time and absolutely hate it. Yeah it looks cool for a moment, but I would never want that.

I for one absolutely love it. It doesn’t just look cool, it’s maximally functional for all of my use cases.

Yeah, I totally love having to take my eyes off the road in order to press any button in the cockpit. Truly brilliant design!

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#372

Post by rtp4me » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

bbbbb5 wrote: post #326

mbesto wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, anyone have a video to back this up? For all of Tesla's woes, their mapping screen is above and beyond superior to any native GPS I've ever seen.

Tesla is far behind everyone else on navigation due to the simple fact that Teslas do not have Carplay. There's no Waze on Teslas, how can you drive without it? But here's how the current Mercedes navigation looks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCgy3askMcM The AR stuff works really well and is arguably way ahead of anything Tesla offers.

Hard disagree on this one. I have both a 2021 Tesla Model Y and a 2021 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid. Overall, the Tesla system is much better than the Toyota Infotainment system. For example:

  * Tesla maps has a much better zoom/scroll feature (faster, more detail, smoother).   The Toyota map requires you to hit the "zoom" button and then click zoom-in/out

  * The calendar tool built into the Tesla allows me to easily navigate to the appointment location.

  * Tesla maps have way-point selection (set an additional stop between start and end) 

  * The Toyota Infotainment system does not appear to have a "night mode".  Thus, the display puts out a ton of light during night-time driving (even with the brightness level set to minimum)

  * Waze is way too "chatty" for my taste

Because of the above, I am forced to use Apple CarPlay in the Toyota because the default UI experience is so horrible. Overall, I like the Toyota (great gas mileage), but I much prefer to drive the Tesla.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#373

Post by freejazz » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

aardvarkr wrote: post #81

samwillis wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autopilot [FSD] is a boondoggle that is a distraction from their core mission. They have wasted time and resources on it, when by now they should have a cheaper mass market car and a full suite of commercial vehicles (small vans to large trucks). Edit: yes meant FSD

I strongly disagree. Autopilot is what made them COOL and gave them their secret sauce. I used to be a major fan back in 2015 and that was an incredibly momentous initiative that cannot be understated. You can say this now with the benefit of hindsight but do not make the mistake of assuming it was all just a waste of money. Autopilot was a key driver in the hype and fanaticism that turned Tesla from a hip startup in…

"I strongly disagree. Autopilot is what made them COOL and gave them their secret sauce."

To dorks who believed the hype, yeah.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#374

Post by eatsyourtacos » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

gernb wrote: post #212

eatsyourtacos wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course some do. The point is the vast majority do NOT want the interior of a Tesla. They want everything in the same darn place that 99% of cars have it, with physical switches to be able to change things so you can just feel what you are doing without taking your eyes off the road. Most people see the interior of a Tesla as a complete gimmick.

their sales indicate otherwise

No they don't. We have the small rich population that want a new fancy toy. I've seen it with everyone I know that has a Telsa. "Oh look how geeky I am, this is so neat I have a big screen!".

That is the insane minority.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#375

Post by rtp4me » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:41 PM UTC

izacus wrote: post #324

darknavi wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mapping and charge planning on the BMW and particularly the EQE/EQS are arguably slightly superior now to Tesla Really? One of the main selling points for me is that the center screen in Teslas are actually usable, non-laggy POS like most cars these days.

None of the infotainment systems on new EVs are particularly laggy anymore - BMW and Mercedes systems are quite good. VW is the only one still shipping a piece of crock.

Mind if I show you my 2021 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid Infotainment system? Utter garbage. Slow, clunky, almost unusable.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#376

Post by LarryMullins » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #366

kwhitefoot wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The place where Teslas form the largest fraction of the car population is Norway. They don't seem to have more problems with winter than any other car brand. I have driven my 2015 Mode S 70D at 1000 m altitude, -20°C, on numerous occasions with no problems at all. My Model S is certainly better at handling the winter than a Nissan Leaf of the same vintage.

Most Norwegians in my experience are a lot happier wearing a woollen jumper or layers to cope with their weather, whereas many Americans are not happy unless their car is cranking to keep the interior at 72 while it's in single digits outside.

Heh, in my experience most Americans start complaining if the heat isn't cranked up to 80F in the dead of winter. But come summer, everybody wants the AC cranked down to 60F. T-shirts in the winter and stylish jackets in the summer, nobody dresses for the seasons.

Personally, I prefer an open window. Fresh air is almost always better than warm/cold stale air. But I think that'll kill a car's aerodynamics anyway, maybe worse for efficiency than running the heater/AC.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#377

Post by FireBeyond » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:45 PM UTC

conductr wrote: post #226

judge2020 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference seems to be that Tesla was 5-10 years ahead on everything: Minimalistic interiors, modern infotainment, mobile app performance, and of course they lead the way in making electric cars viable by showing that they can both look good and blast off in record time. But you're right that other automakers see Tesla as a threat and are catching up; for example, the range and charging curve improvements on mode…

> in making electric cars viable by showing that they can both look good and blast off in record time I still don't get the 'look good' part, why do non-ICE cars always need to have a different look that what is already popular/proven in the market. The traditional automakers are still doing this today with their first big pushes in EV. If they don't sell they'll blame 'the market' for not wanting EV, but in reality…

And also, I get that it's subjective, but the Model Y does not look anything resembling "good" to me. It's like a weird futuristic Aztek. It's not attractive.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#378

Post by FireBeyond » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:47 PM UTC

8ytecoder wrote: post #304

conductr wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in making electric cars viable by showing that they can both look good and blast off in record time I still don't get the 'look good' part, why do non-ICE cars always need to have a different look that what is already popular/proven in the market. The traditional automakers are still doing this today with their first big pushes in EV. If they don't sell they'll blame 'the market' for not wanting EV, but in reality…

Almost as if ICE car companies don’t want electric to sell. BMW was the worst of the lot. They’re doing better now.

I don't think that makes them conspiring or evil. Just pragmatic.

"We have tens of billions and tens of decades invested in 'perfecting' ICE. This is a huge upheaval" is an attitude I'd expect any of them to take (while still recognizing they need to see where the market is heading and planning for that).

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#379

Post by FireBeyond » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:52 PM UTC

l33tman wrote: post #125

nradov wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hilarious that anyone would consider this an acceptable work around for such an idiotic design flaw.

Yeah well that they omit a windshield wiper stalk is also idiotic and furthermore outright dangerous. I've done overtakes next to trailers some times in heavy rain where in a second I had to hit the wiper stalk to max. Relying on their camera -based AI to do that (yes they skip on the cost of the industry standard IR sensor for rain detection) is crazy. A german guy actually died a few years back because he was searc…

I don't even get the AI/ML wipers. Like you say, IR (and I believe some, though a definite minority, even use electrical conductivity/resistance) auto wipers have been reliable[1] for nearly three decades now. Why do we need ML for wipers? Are we anticipating new types of rain that existing auto wipers won't recognize?

[1] To those about to say "they're not reliable", I'm yet to find one that can't be tweaked with the sensitivity controller. If anything the only flaw I have had is when my wiper _blades_ are near the end of their life and they leave a 'streak' of water droplets over the sensor, and increase the false positive.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#380

Post by mbesto » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:52 PM UTC

bbbbb5 wrote: post #326

mbesto wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, anyone have a video to back this up? For all of Tesla's woes, their mapping screen is above and beyond superior to any native GPS I've ever seen.

Tesla is far behind everyone else on navigation due to the simple fact that Teslas do not have Carplay. There's no Waze on Teslas, how can you drive without it? But here's how the current Mercedes navigation looks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCgy3askMcM The AR stuff works really well and is arguably way ahead of anything Tesla offers.

I've used both Tesla and Honda's Carplay for ~2 years now. I really enjoy Carplay (and the phone integration is a huge plus), but a few things:

- re: waze - huh? Google Maps is just fine. The differences are such a personal preference that they are moot.

- The touch controls on Carplay are not great. Try pinching and zooming on Google Maps in Carplay and its awful. (note - I do think Tesla misses the boat on having more physical controls as they almost rely entirely on touch...which is unsafe and not great)

> But here's how the current Mercedes navigation looks

Looks awesome, but that appears to be on a €185k ICE car.