Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm • Hacker News Board

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#291

Post by dsfyu404ed » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

ellieh wrote: post #231

usrusr wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * when in full-auto on a single lane road, when there's an exit on the right the Tesla 3 almost always slightly swerve towards the exit before coming back in its lane. None of the Megane, the EQE or the BMW i4 do that. A minor nuisance. Unless you happen to be at the ready attentively double-checking whatever the assistance is doing - then it must be infuriatingly annoying! Guess what you're supposed to be doing, a…

Any car behaving differently to a human driver is outright dangerous. For example, motorcyclists depend on inferring behaviour more than the average driver. Someone swerving towards an exit is far more reliable an indicator of them taking it than a signal - many drivers don't bother using them. Many bikers I know avoid Teslas like the plague, as they're deeply difficult to read at best, and lethal at worst.

> Any car behaving differently to a human driver is outright dangerous.

Any traffic participant (of any type) behaving sufficiently differently than the fat part of the bell curve for the situation (traffic, weather, location, vehicle type, time of day, etc) they are in is dangerous because they violate the expectations of all other road participants have for them. Other road participants need to be able to make reliable enough and accurate enough predictions of future state for things to work properly. This holds regardless of human or computer.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#292

Post by panick21_ » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #118

warinukraine wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Tesla stock price should be looked at in a log plot.

Regardless, it's still 10x overvalued if we're simply considering it to be a carmaker. It's currently 7x the value of Ford with a fraction of the production.

Tesla has a far better debt position, has far, far larger growth and is already making far more money then Ford. Not to mention the battery manufacture, super charger network and so on and so on.

Saying that Tesla is a 'fraction of production' is just an incredibly ignorant analysis of a company.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#293

Post by bartread » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

lb1lf wrote: post #287

throwaway894345 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t love that I have to use the touch screen to open my glove box, and I certainly think there are a lot of UI issues (and the lack of integration with phones beyond regular bluetooth), but one thing I appreciate is that there aren’t any blinding dash lights. I can see a lot better at night in my Tesla as a consequence compared with any other vehicle I’ve driven.

Most cars (all?) have the option to dim the dashboard backlight. I find Saab's solution to be extremely elegant - on some, if not all models, there's a night mode button - what happens is that all non-essential instruments are simply dimmed to black (leaving only the speedo lit), until something happens which warrants your attention; the instrument in question will then come on. Simultaneously, it dims all button bac…

I had a Saab 93 estate (station wagon, for the benefit of non-UK residents) with this feature and loved it. I'd often use it and then also dial the brightness all the way down. Really helped to reduce visual fatigue when driving at night.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

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Post by dylan604 » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 5:06 PM UTC

phpisthebest wrote: post #159

dylan604 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the Gigafactories manufactured the batteries whose design they license from someone else that then get assembled into packs of various sizes. Are you saying the Gigafactories are not making batteries at all?

Pretty sure the Gigafactory in NV has LG staff inside them making the Cells, or rather running the machines that makes the cells. While it is under one roof I think there are 2 businesses inside, one LG and 1 Telsa

interesting. was not aware they were 4-walling the set up to keep them separated to that extent. does that say anything about how LG feels about the relationship with Tesla, or anything about how LG feels about the ability of Tesla employees? Are the batteries coming out of the Gigafactory only for use by Tesla, or are they making LG branded batteries to be sold to LG customers? If they are selling LG products, then I could see why LG would have a much more vested interest in the factory. If they are only Tesla products via a licensing deal, why would they be as interested?

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#295

Post by throwaway894345 » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 5:06 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #200

throwaway894345 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t love that I have to use the touch screen to open my glove box, and I certainly think there are a lot of UI issues (and the lack of integration with phones beyond regular bluetooth), but one thing I appreciate is that there aren’t any blinding dash lights. I can see a lot better at night in my Tesla as a consequence compared with any other vehicle I’ve driven.

I have not driven many cars, but I feel like there is usually a dial to adjust the brightness of dash lights. At least in Toyotas.

Hah, I had a Camry for 10 years and never knew it had such a dial!

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

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Post by MisterBastahrd » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 5:07 PM UTC

phreenet wrote: post #208

nradov wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most car buyers don't actually want minimalistic interiors.

I know it's personal preference but I think a good number of people don't know they will be fine without 15 buttons on the steering wheel or 10 different buttons for climate control. I haven't missed any of that moving to a Model 3.

Most of them would rather have buttons on their doors to control the things that have been controlled that way for generations, though. You shouldn't have to hunt through a menu to lock a door.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

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Post by bluGill » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 5:09 PM UTC

jasondigitized wrote: post #219

helen___keller wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was a survey a few years ago of how much more people would be willing to pay for cars that could drive themself, and the median answer was $0. This is because quite a few people gave a negative number, that is, they would pay extra for a car that could not drive itself. I think there's an inherent distrust (which I share) of giving technology the power to end our lives with one bug. Trust in technology, in ge…

The average American will never be persuaded by statistics. Ross Perot tried that already.

It isn't the average American that needs to be convinced, it is the government car safety agencies (every government around the world with a such an agency, not just US). They have people who know how to read statistics. Once the statistics show significant improvements they will make anything else illegal. Of course significant is something that will be debated, and there will be a phase in time. In the end though, this isn't about the average person it is about the people with power.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

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Post by darknavi » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 5:09 PM UTC

wazoox wrote: post #94

msoad wrote: post #4

I have a Tesla and I also hold a short position on TSLA. My Tesla is a great car. The best car that I've ever driven but I'm not sure if it has anything that other car manufacturers can't replicate. I think Apple can make an even better car than Tesla if they build the hardware and software like their phones and computers. The idea that Autopilot has some magic sauce that nobody else can replicate is laughable.

Actually after having tested a couple of other cars, for instance the Renault Megane, the BMW i4 and the Mercedes EQE have better enhanced drive assistance than Tesla. For instance: * when in full-auto on a single lane road, when there's an exit on the right the Tesla 3 almost always slightly swerve towards the exit before coming back in its lane. None of the Megane, the EQE or the BMW i4 do that. * To overtake a slo…

> The mapping and charge planning on the BMW and particularly the EQE/EQS are arguably slightly superior now to Tesla

Really? One of the main selling points for me is that the center screen in Teslas are actually usable, non-laggy POS like most cars these days.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

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Post by myko » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 5:10 PM UTC

staunch wrote: post #43

judge2020 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference seems to be that Tesla was 5-10 years ahead on everything: Minimalistic interiors, modern infotainment, mobile app performance, and of course they lead the way in making electric cars viable by showing that they can both look good and blast off in record time. But you're right that other automakers see Tesla as a threat and are catching up; for example, the range and charging curve improvements on mode…

> The difference seems to be that Tesla was 5-10 years ahead on everything... This is pretty much the definition of a great tech product: it's ahead of anything else by N years. What makes a great technology company is that they manage to consistently maintain that lead with product after product. We'll see if Tesla can maintain its lead. It's not looking good and it probably depends mostly on whether or not Elon Mus…

Tesla has already lost its lead as far as the car itself. The Ioniq is an affordable car and better than Tesla Model 3/Y. Mercedes and BMW have better luxury models with EQS and i7, and the BMW i4 is more fun to drive than a Model 3. The Cadillac Lyriq costs what a Model Y does but compares favorably to the Model X. Tesla interiors feel cheap compared to other cars in their same class and they have notorious build quality issues.

They do have one major advantage, which is why I still drive a Model S, and that's the Supercharger network. It's a big deal for anyone who regularly drives a few hundred miles in their EV.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

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Post by LarryMullins » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 5:10 PM UTC

zzzeek wrote: post #204

great article, but: "And the natural Tesla-owners among the wealthy progressive set are less prepared to overlook Mr Musk’s libertarian antics at Twitter" banning journalists and parodies he doesnt like == libertarian, got it!

Real libertarianism hasn't been tried.