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The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

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Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#531

Post by quartesixte »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #263
cudgy wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A business degree makes the candidate over-qualified for managing a mall store is the likely reason. They are afraid of the employee using the position as a stepping stone to a higher paying, higher status job.

I am under the impression that business/communications bachelors degrees were a signal that the degree holder took the easy way out in school. It was considered the fallback degree when I went to college 20 years ago, since anyone could graduate with it with minimal effort.

Business degrees are good if you leverage the actual purpose of the degree correctly: networking and prestige status.

Communications can be good if your school is in the middle of a communications hub. Which, for US students, boils down to Los Angeles and New York City. But a lot of the worth of that degree comes from its ability to unlock internships and networking inside the two biggest media markets in the US, if not the entire world.

So not entirely worthless but only lucrative in specific cities and markets, and for mostly shibboleth reasons (many friends with communications degrees who also went to school in either city pull in mid-six figures working for big entertainment companies).

But hey, at least you don’t have to actually study anything while spending most of your week at unpaid internships and networking events!

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#532

Post by toad_master »

WalterBright wrote: post #260
falcolas wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It isn't a bad career But there is a finite end to the career - when your body gives out. That's the biggest problem with the trades, you're selling your health and body. And eventually the body parts will wear out, on a schedule decided as much by genetics as how you live.

I'm not sure how your body parts wear out. Football players ruin their bodies through accumulated injuries, not wearing their bodies out. Do athletes wear their bodies out? I've never heard of that. How does doing plumbing/electricioning wear your body out?

Athlete's bodies definitely wear out, some sports more so than others. Ask any retired gymnast how their body is doing.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#533

Post by yterdy »

bluedino wrote: post #446
cwkoss wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does your company train unskilled workers? Or are previous skills or credentials required?

No. They will hire people who are taking or have completed classes at the community college as apprentices occasionally. Companies are afraid to spend money training when they don't think they will have reliable people (based on past experiences)

If a large number of people who are already credentialed for a job get it, and then quit soon after, why would it be rational for someone to spend their own time and money pursuing unpaid training in the hopes of also being hired onto that job?

It seems to me that companies have unrealistic ideas about what they need to do in order to attract employees. Start training again. Cross-train, even, if the boredom issue is a real one. Make work floors more hospitable (provide heaters/fans, lower noise, etc.). There was a time when typists and "computers" worked regimented shifts in sweltering/freezing, warehouse-style offices, too; very few workers will put up with being triple-layered at their keyboards or drowning in their own sweat these days. Maybe that needs to change for trades; or, businesses need to pay more to reflect the trouble people are putting themselves through for their paycheck.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#534

Post by crazygringo »

JamesBarney wrote: post #495
pavon wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is what we were told repeatedly and constantly throughout middle and high school (mid to late 90s): * You should go to college. * You should do what you love. * Sure some jobs pay more that others, but that doesn't matter if you are doing what you love. What was completely left out of the discussion was that some degrees won't actually enable you to do what you love . They'll just load you with tons of debt, mak…

Yeah the "you could be an archeologist or a historian" was such obvious bullshit that I can't believe any adult could say this with a straight face." They always listed the jobs you could have with a degree instead of the jobs you would have with a degree. My wife got a GIS degree. They told her about all the map making jobs. They didn't say 95% of these jobs were oil and gas.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about... a friend of mine studied archaeology in college and wound up starting her career in the curation department of a major museum. Another studied history and wound up becoming a tenure-track history professor.

Now granted they both worked crazy hard in school, but the idea that it's "obvious bullshit" isn't true at all. Archaeologists and historians are real jobs that exist. I say that with a straight face.

I'm not saying that it's easy to become either, and you're definitely not going to become rich doing either of them, but they're certainly attainable if you're truly driven and love that kind of work. They're not get-lucky fantasies like NBA star or celebrity influencer.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#535

Post by bluedino »

nerdponx wrote: post #496
prottog wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a similar disconnect in expectations of outcomes. The same days when people "wanted" overtime were the days where people expected to get ahead by busting their asses; sure, you could work short hours, play with your kids, have time to develop a hobby, but then you wouldn't become wealthy. That option is still there today, to work only enough to sustain oneself at a lowered standard. But it seems that there is…

It's the other way around. Younger generations have discovered that the busting of the ass in and of itself does not lead to financial comfort or stability. At least going to college and working an office job kind of still holds that promise. Why stand 10 hours a day at a machine, when I can work 7 at my desk for better pay and better long-term prospects?

Living within your means leads to financial comfort and stability, no matter what you make. Millionaire next door etc

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#536

Post by ryanmccullagh »

thedaly wrote: post #516
rybosworld wrote: post #503

"Youtube university" has most definitely had an effect. Particularly in regards to the lack of pay increase in the trades. My toilet is leaking? 10 years ago I'd call a plumber. Now I diagnose the problem and determine if it's within my skill level to learn the repair (it usually is). For me, this wouldn't be feasible without online how-to videos. A plumber/carpenter/electrician will charge me $50-$100/hr for work th…

I work at a union plumbing company in a major metro area and union plumbers make very good money here (100k+). We aren’t losing any business to YouTube. We only do service for commercial businesses, and the house engineer isn’t going out of the way to do any more work than what is absolutely necessary. You will still need a plumber if you do a large remodel or new construction. Good on you for learning how to do more…

> and the house engineer isn’t going out of the way to do any more work than what is absolutely necessary

Most contractors: Doing the absolute minimum necessary and cutting corners

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#537

Post by Karrot_Kream »

pleb_nz wrote: post #338
UncleMeat wrote: post #33

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

Is this more of a US issue? I'm ex tradesman and know a lot of tradespeople in my part of the world and they're often some of the best off and fittest people I know. Being on your feet all day and moving around seems to be good for the human body rather than sitting behind a desk for 8 hours which we now is incredibly bad for you.

Depends on your personality and the jobs you've taken. I know auto mechanics wrenching it into their late 60s. A friend's dad owns grocery stores and still does stocking in his late 60s. He puts our step count to shame. I also know fly-by-night moving companies that work kids into the ground by having them lift things in all sorts of bad positions. I know impatient people who will lift with bad form because they're in a rush. (I don't want to imply that these are negative personality traits. Many, many people have a hard time dealing with the patience required to lift things properly for a job.)

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#538

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

rybosworld wrote: post #503

"Youtube university" has most definitely had an effect. Particularly in regards to the lack of pay increase in the trades. My toilet is leaking? 10 years ago I'd call a plumber. Now I diagnose the problem and determine if it's within my skill level to learn the repair (it usually is). For me, this wouldn't be feasible without online how-to videos. A plumber/carpenter/electrician will charge me $50-$100/hr for work th…

Why anecdotes are not data: I have the exact opposite experience. In my opinion time is money, and $50-$100 is money I can earn a lot faster at my contracting rates than I can fixing my toilet.

In any case, the fact that skilled trade work is still extremely expensive where I live and has not gone down post-pandemic points to the fact that these tradespeople are having no trouble finding jobs.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#539

Post by dnissley »

sobkas wrote: post #493
xenadu02 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He should start buying some cheap tools of his own (to start with) and do weekend/night jobs for himself. If he's working on 1.5m homes I guarantee you there are a ton of homeowners who need electrical jobs done. Get on Yelp, ask his customers to leave good reviews, and build a business. There are a ton of niches and other opportunities. For example being available during late hours. In anything like a large or mediu…

> He should start buying some cheap tools of his own (to start with) and do weekend/night jobs for himself. If he's working on 1.5m homes I guarantee you there are a ton of homeowners who need electrical jobs done. Get on Yelp, ask his customers to leave good reviews, and build a business. > There are a ton of niches and other opportunities. For example being available during late hours. In anything like a large or m…

How would they even know? Assuming they keep quiet about it

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#540

Post by quartesixte »

Rapzid wrote: post #356
floor2 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That much-repeated factoid is the result of sloppy, clickbait reporting of a lousy survey. People were asked "If you had a sudden $500 expense, how would you pay for it?" with options like ["cash", "checking account", "credit card", "pay-day loan", "borrow from family"] and unsurprisingly many people said "credit card". This then got repeated and reported as "Americans can't pay $500 without going into debt".

Yeah, would like to see the source of that. My generation puts everything on rewards cards even if they have no debt; so of course $500 is going on a card first lol.

Of course. Might as well turn it effectively into a $495 bill.
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