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The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

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Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#491

Post by mixmastamyk »

UncleMeat wrote: post #33

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

> He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation.

Sounds like software contracting.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#492

Post by [deleted] »

dionidium wrote: post #174
joecot wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a millennial. First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. So everyone went and got a college degree, and since so many people had it it wasn't a status symbol anymore, so that wasn't enough to get a good middle class job. And then a bunch of people were told they shouldn't have gotten those degrees and they were worthless. Then we were told to go into STEM. So lots of peop…

> First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. Something strange is happening here that I can't quite understand. Jokes about English majors asking if you want fries with that are way older than me and I first started college in 1999. Yes, I heard a persistent low rumbling of "go to college," but the idea that "any degree would do" is alien to me. Of course I knew that some maj…

[deleted]

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#493

Post by sobkas »

xenadu02 wrote: post #479
UncleMeat wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a bad area. There aren't better employers in the area. He knows he is being abused. He used to live and work as an electrician in another country where he was treated considerably better. He spends his days wiring new homes that sell for 1.5M+ and gets treated like crap. Moving is unfortunately not an option because my sister's career is very location-dependent. "Well if you aren't in one of the good area…

He should start buying some cheap tools of his own (to start with) and do weekend/night jobs for himself. If he's working on 1.5m homes I guarantee you there are a ton of homeowners who need electrical jobs done. Get on Yelp, ask his customers to leave good reviews, and build a business. There are a ton of niches and other opportunities. For example being available during late hours. In anything like a large or mediu…

> He should start buying some cheap tools of his own (to start with) and do weekend/night jobs for himself. If he's working on 1.5m homes I guarantee you there are a ton of homeowners who need electrical jobs done. Get on Yelp, ask his customers to leave good reviews, and build a business.

> There are a ton of niches and other opportunities. For example being available during late hours. In anything like a large or medium city you can charge $150-350 per hour and people will happily pay it.

> Doing this while working for someone else is a good way to survive the initial ups and downs. If he builds a reputation for doing good work his clients will start begging him to quit his day job.

Did you think about possibility that his current employer will crush him like an egg for competing with him on weekends?

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#494

Post by lotsofpulp »

meetingthrower wrote: post #360

Man, I'm in PE buying these companies and if you want to get rich in America be competent in skilled trades. If you have a little bit of management skill it is very doable. I've been offering 40 year old high school grads $30M in cash for their companies (and they would get that much again as we are doing rollups and they maintain significant equity.) What is amazing is that these guys just do this again and again. Y…

How much more are these high school grads earning than you? Is it not sufficient to incentivize you to do what they do, or do you not possess the “little bit of management skill” it would take? Or is it something else?

I suspect the volatility is much higher for possessing the skill to be able to “cash out” $30M+ regularly, compared to going to a nice undergrad school, getting a job at a prestigious big company, then going to a selective business school, and then landing a gig in private equity.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#495

Post by JamesBarney »

pavon wrote: post #395
dionidium wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. Something strange is happening here that I can't quite understand. Jokes about English majors asking if you want fries with that are way older than me and I first started college in 1999. Yes, I heard a persistent low rumbling of "go to college," but the idea that "any degree would do" is alien to me. Of course I knew that some maj…

Here is what we were told repeatedly and constantly throughout middle and high school (mid to late 90s): * You should go to college. * You should do what you love. * Sure some jobs pay more that others, but that doesn't matter if you are doing what you love. What was completely left out of the discussion was that some degrees won't actually enable you to do what you love . They'll just load you with tons of debt, mak…

Yeah the "you could be an archeologist or a historian" was such obvious bullshit that I can't believe any adult could say this with a straight face."

They always listed the jobs you could have with a degree instead of the jobs you would have with a degree.

My wife got a GIS degree. They told her about all the map making jobs. They didn't say 95% of these jobs were oil and gas.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#496

Post by nerdponx »

prottog wrote: post #314
rco8786 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You get overtime. I think this comment represents a fundamental disconnect in cultures. The days of people "wanting" overtime are kind of gone. If I saw "overtime pay" on a job description all I am seeing is "work long hours, never see your kids, no time for hobbies, etc". Maybe that translates to me "not wanting to work", but that's the situation.

There's a similar disconnect in expectations of outcomes. The same days when people "wanted" overtime were the days where people expected to get ahead by busting their asses; sure, you could work short hours, play with your kids, have time to develop a hobby, but then you wouldn't become wealthy. That option is still there today, to work only enough to sustain oneself at a lowered standard. But it seems that there is…

It's the other way around. Younger generations have discovered that the busting of the ass in and of itself does not lead to financial comfort or stability. At least going to college and working an office job kind of still holds that promise. Why stand 10 hours a day at a machine, when I can work 7 at my desk for better pay and better long-term prospects?

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#497

Post by jstarfish »

nradov wrote: post #372
svachalek wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm 10 years older than you and never had any thought that "any degree will do". Although perhaps I'm old enough to see that this was legitimate thinking in my predecessors. There was a time when just completing college was fairly uncommon and acted as a class signifier. I believe having a degree, any degree, would have made you an officer automatically in the military (and still does?) and would have opened the…

Having any bachelor's degree is usually a necessary prerequisite to earn a commission as a military officer, but it's not sufficient. There are many enlisted personnel who have degrees but don't become officers, either because they don't want the hassle or don't meet other criteria.

Same with retail management. Maybe things are different these days, but as of ~2010 the highest position at Target you could work without having a degree was team lead.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#498

Post by WalterBright »

yamtaddle wrote: post #398
WalterBright wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't be worse than yoga. Edit: Downvote me all you like. I've done yoga, I've done plumbing, I've done electrical. Yoga takes the cake by a mile for most painful contorting. And yet I know an 86 yo woman who has been doing yoga 3 time a week forever and is fit and sharp.

You've done some of the work, but do you know many middle-aged or older tradespeople? Their joints are shot and they have aches all over and they fuck up their back on the regular. There's your speculation and incredulity, and then there's all the people I've talked to who do it. They disagree with you.

I fucked up my back regularly until I'd had enough and started doing a lot of back strengthening exercises, which virtually eliminated the problem. Been doing them ever since. The doc who helped me with this told me that back injuries come from weak backs. You have to specifically work on those muscles to avoid injury.

I found out when waterskiing that you don't get strong waterskiing, you get injured. You have to spend a lot of time in the gym so you don't get injured waterskiing.

Back when I was younger in Seattle, lumberjacking was still a thing. They told me that the limiting thing was injury. They'd work into their sixties. There aren't many jobs harder than lumberjacking. I wouldn't mess with any of them, either, they are freakin' strong and I'm sure they could cleave me from head to toe with a casual swing of the axe.

I'm not in the least surprised that people working in trades mess up their backs, nor do I doubt that they do. But injuring one's back is not the same as wearing it out.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#499

Post by silisili »

nullsense wrote: post #285
unethical_ban wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this line about kids wanting to be influencers. Is there a credible source? And is this any different than them wanting to be a rock star, movie star, etc.? Most who have this hairbrained dream can fail quickly and hopefully with minimal cost or embarrassment and move on with their lives.

My 7 year old routinely tells me he is going to be a YouTuber. I routinely remind him about power law distributions. So far he has made 2 YouTube channels with a handful of videos each and even less subscribers. I can't recall if it was for his 6th or 7th birthday but he had been talking a lot about wanting his own "merch", so I asked him what kind of design would he put on his "merch" and he told me what he wanted.…

I think this comment is the first time I've realized how out of touch I may have become with the world. I had no idea that kids wants to be influencers and Youtubers instead of say, rock stars or sports stars.

In a way I find it a little sad, as a reminder humans keep getting more isolated with tech. Where 30 years ago we wanted people cheering us on, chanting our name, etc... people now seem to desire views, likes, and whatnot.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, it's just really hard for my brain to process as I don't understand it.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#500

Post by nibbleshifter »

tpmx wrote: post #328
nibbleshifter wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference in lifestyle between those two incomes is pretty decent.

Do you think everyone should be paid the same irregardless of the value of their labor/output?

That's not what I said.

I was pointing out that there is a significant difference in quality of life, and lifestyle, between a person on 70k and 100k.

Which the poster in was responding to seemed to think was not the case.

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