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Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

economist.com

431–440 of 463 posts

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#431
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like, on paper they can do 250 kW but you never get more than 100 when actually charging it etc Yeah this is one area where there's a lot of deceptive marketing. For example the Kia EV6 specs list a max fast charging rate of 350 kW but what that actually means is that you need a 350 kW charging station to reach the car's actual max charging speed of 240 kW (or 180 kW, depending on the battery options). Granted, that…

> For example the Kia EV6 specs list a max fast charging rate of 350 kW but what that actually means is that you need a 350 kW charging station to reach the car's actual max charging speed of 240 kW > it's really frustrating how hard it is to compare charge speed from different manufacturers Is the discrepancy just the inefficiency (i.e. waste heat) of the charging circuitry and/or battery chemistry? And if so, do di…

Is the discrepancy just the inefficiency (i.e. waste heat) of the charging circuitry and/or battery chemistry?

I'm not positive on the specifics but I believe it has more to do with the combination of supported voltages/amperages offered by different chargers. i.e. a "350 kW capable" charger in practice means it can do 800V charging, which other chargers of lower kW ratings typically can't do, and the EV6 requires 800V to reach its max charge speed but can't actually handle a high enough amperage to get to 350 kW.

Like I said though, I might be confused on some of the details there, but I'm fairly positive it's not just waste heat...dissipating 110kW of waste heat would require some pretty insane cooling hardware.

Oh, and EVs presumably vary wildly in their "fuel economy" (miles per kilowatt-hour or whatever unit EV folks use), so even a "fair" comparison of charging rate presumably wouldn't paint the entire picture.

This is indeed a good point. A more relevant measure of charging speed would be something like "miles per hour at EPA rated efficiency", though even that gets messy since most cars don't charge at a linear speed. And I haven't seen any car manufacturers use this metric other than Tesla, who like to brag about their supercharger stations exceeding 1,000 MPH of charging speed (though only the newest stations can just barely do that, for very short durations, and only on certain car models). "Time from 20%-80% charge" would also be a better metric, due to non-linear charging speed curves, but I haven't seen that one used much either.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#432
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn’t they do that with cell phones?

They were already the market leader in computers and portable devices (iPod), plus "smartphone" was a very recent and underdeveloped sector to begin with (existing products were all focused on business use cases and no end consumer had one). Very different from cars. Look at all their other efforts to enter areas with a dominant player. People were saying Spotify was doomed when Apple Music launched, yet it has barel…

>Heck they are even having trouble with a wireless charging pad, and have basically conceded the market to Qi.

Do you own any Magsafe devices? Their Magsafe implementation is like magic and its extremely practical. It (among many other things) has essentially locked me into iPhone ecosystem for good.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#433
post #14

This is true for so many "tech" darlings: Should Uber be priced like a tech company, or a cab company? Is Amazon a tech company or a retailer? Are ecommerce outlets like Warby Parker and Away tech companies, or just retailers with good CSS? It continues to amaze me how investors seem bamboozled by the appearance of "tech company-ness", by businesses which are obviously in markets that don't support the high price to…

As someone who has beat the market (S&P500) for the past 17 years, I agree that there is a problem with people not understanding markets/technologies. But a bigger issue is that A LOT of people are looking for short term gains. Just look at crypto, even the most serious/nonscammy people in the space believe it will take many years to reach it's true potential, but if you look that the message boards and twitter, they…

Can you blame them? This same market has stagnated wages for decades and so the only way to have a chance get ahead is to gamble.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't need a one-off application for every streaming service, those are there in case you want to use them without phone at all I agree. That's why it doesn't make sense that Tesla is approaching it as "bespoke or bust". > Bluetooth audio is a thing, and you can stream whatever audio you want from your phone to your car audio using that. Yes, but "streaming a single audio track (with low audio quality)" is pret…

It’s illegal in most states to stream video on a console that the driver can see while they are driving. Apple and I believe Google are very strict about which apps can be used for CarPlay/Android Auto. There would be major repercussions if they weren’t.

Of course. I’m not arguing for video while driving.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, I had a Camry for 10 years and never knew it had such a dial!

Congrats on being one of the 10,000, but given that my '81 VW Vanagon has adjustable dashlights, I'd not buy a modern car if it didn't have that feature. Rheostats aren't exactly cutting-edge technology (though I'm sure a modern car uses software to run the driver that sends commands down the CANBUS, which then...)

Relax. I didn’t say they don’t exist or that my Camry didn’t have it. I’m just saying I didn’t know it had it.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, I had a Camry for 10 years and never knew it had such a dial!

You should read the instruction manual to the over $30k machinery you purchased. There's likely many features you didn't realize were there.

Joke’s on you. My Camry was only $25k new.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debt in itself doesn't matter when you value a company. What you want to look at is shareholder equity, which is assets net of liabilities. When you look at that indicator, Tesla comes behind GM and Ford. Tesla: $31.0 bn GM: $65.3 bn Ford: $42.1 bn

You can quibble with the real value of GM and Ford's assets. If I built a factory for a billion dollars that makes horse buggies, is it actually worth a billion dollars if I was forced to liquidate it?

[deleted]

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#438
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were already the market leader in computers and portable devices (iPod), plus "smartphone" was a very recent and underdeveloped sector to begin with (existing products were all focused on business use cases and no end consumer had one). Very different from cars. Look at all their other efforts to enter areas with a dominant player. People were saying Spotify was doomed when Apple Music launched, yet it has barel…

>Heck they are even having trouble with a wireless charging pad, and have basically conceded the market to Qi. Do you own any Magsafe devices? Their Magsafe implementation is like magic and its extremely practical. It (among many other things) has essentially locked me into iPhone ecosystem for good.

Magsafe (the iPhone one) = Qi + magnets. There is nothing "magic" about it. You can even get non-Apple branded wireless chargers that have replicated the functionality. The new Qi2 standard will also have this built-in (with help from Apple in fact). It is hardly some revolutionary new product area or source of revenue for the company.

Meanwhile AirPower was in announced in 2017 and has still failed to materialize.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Norwegians in my experience are a lot happier wearing a woollen jumper or layers to cope with their weather, whereas many Americans are not happy unless their car is cranking to keep the interior at 72 while it's in single digits outside.

Heh, in my experience most Americans start complaining if the heat isn't cranked up to 80F in the dead of winter. But come summer, everybody wants the AC cranked down to 60F. T-shirts in the winter and stylish jackets in the summer, nobody dresses for the seasons. Personally, I prefer an open window. Fresh air is almost always better than warm/cold stale air. But I think that'll kill a car's aerodynamics anyway, mayb…

You can set your ac or heat to pull air in from outside. With the added benefit that most nice vehicles have an outside air filter to filter the fresh air first.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#440

Tesla owns so much data that it has collected(and will only continue to amass more in the future)from its customers that it is the very definition of a successful tech company. Economist is an embarrassment for journalism.

Don’t other car companies also collect data? Data isn’t what makes a tech company successful. It’s the application of that data into a product. They have Autopilot as their seminal data product, but it is buggy.

I think you underestimate the value of data. It is stock in trade. Without data there is no automation. A lot of it is noise and very little signal.

The one who reigns the era of automation and AI will be the one who possesses all our data.

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