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The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

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Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#441

Post by lumb63 »

Ancalagon wrote: post #4

Same labor shortage as everywhere that the government likes to pretend doesn't exist. 10 million working-age men can't or won't work. Of the ones willing to work, almost none want to spend their time learning skills for back-breaking, barely-middle class skills jobs which they'll be forced to retire from at 55 because their knees give out. Same answer for the shortage as everywhere that the economists don't want to h…

I don’t think it’s correct to characterize the 10 million men who can’t or won’t work as a labor shortage; it sounds more like excess supply. The solution to this is to increase the demand these laborers have for work.

As you say in your post, paying more might do it. I’m sure businesses would pay more if they needed the employees and could profitably employ them at a higher wage. Surely they’d rather make less money per employee than not make any money. So, they must not be able to pay more than they are.

We could lower the minimum wage; maybe there are employers who would employ those 10 million men if they could do it at a lower cost, but still the workers wouldn’t be willing to work any more than they are now.

That leaves raising the opportunity cost of not working, e.g. not paying people who won’t work as much to not work. That’s the answer that the people who have answers “that the economists don’t want to hear” don’t want to hear. UBI/negative income tax or cutting welfare programs would help those folks get jobs, but with the risk that some might not, and would end up on the streets.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#442

Post by factsarelolz »

ogre_battle wrote: post #93
mfer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the case for all trades people. It might be a bad area or a bad employer. I've know trades folks who are electricians, plumbers, carpenters, work in road construction, etc. They typically work reasonable hours, have medical, and are paid at or above the median income for where they live. They didn't rack up debt getting into this either. This is not a bad deal for many people.

> it might be a bad area or a bad employer. Outside of big cities, there may not be enough demand, esp. consistent demand, to justify good pay and bennies. My uncle is a welder, has a lot of specializations including some underwater stuff. No shortage of offers... for 6 weeks of work in nowhere-ville, often requiring you to supply your own transport and housing. 3 months in FL, 6 months in NC, 8 weeks in GA. And they…

Weird I've heard exactly the opposite.

The person that does travel welding usually has a setup like a big truck and a pull behind RV. They jump from job site to job site staying campgrounds, county / public property where overnight parking was allowed (previously Walmart parking lots).

As long as the job site is further than 50-100 miles from home you get paid a per diem which granted won't pay for a 4 star hotel, but at 65$ a day (rate depending on location) x 30 (6 5 day work weeks) $1950 then another $25 a day for food $750. This is untaxed and on top of your normal hourly rate. These jobs tend to need to be done on a quick time frame so most do not only work 40 hour work weeks but most are working 60-80 hours. So there is also an insane potential for overtime.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#443

Post by beachy »

dionidium wrote: post #174
joecot wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a millennial. First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. So everyone went and got a college degree, and since so many people had it it wasn't a status symbol anymore, so that wasn't enough to get a good middle class job. And then a bunch of people were told they shouldn't have gotten those degrees and they were worthless. Then we were told to go into STEM. So lots of peop…

> First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. Something strange is happening here that I can't quite understand. Jokes about English majors asking if you want fries with that are way older than me and I first started college in 1999. Yes, I heard a persistent low rumbling of "go to college," but the idea that "any degree would do" is alien to me. Of course I knew that some maj…

There's some kind of herd blindness in humans where they'll go on doing something as long as the rest of the herd is doing it - even if they know better.

There are new houses being built on the coast in my country less than a meter above the high water point. At king tides, their sections are already getting lightly flooded.

When sea levels rise, those same people will complain to the council (which is still letting them build there) and seek compensation, even though sea level rise is well understood and anticipated.

People know the risks but carry on because the rest of the herd is doing it.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#444

Post by dinkumthinkum »

malandrew wrote: post #8
Ancalagon wrote: post #4

Same labor shortage as everywhere that the government likes to pretend doesn't exist. 10 million working-age men can't or won't work. Of the ones willing to work, almost none want to spend their time learning skills for back-breaking, barely-middle class skills jobs which they'll be forced to retire from at 55 because their knees give out. Same answer for the shortage as everywhere that the economists don't want to h…

I’ve done both kinds of work on my own home. Calling it back breaking is pure hyperbole. Is it physical, certainly. But it’s something you can easily do until you’re 50 without issue and between 40 to 50, you can start taking apprentices that do the taxes that benefit from youth. Of the plumbers and carpenters I’ve hired, they are all in no worse shape than other adults their age. I sit at a computer all day and it’s…

How do you explain all the back, leg, joint problems of tradespeople? I hope you aren’t really basing this on sone work you did in your home. Surely, you know that is not representative of the day-to-day work of plumbers, etc?

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#445

Post by Bloating »

UncleMeat wrote: post #127
mfer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the case for all trades people. It might be a bad area or a bad employer. I've know trades folks who are electricians, plumbers, carpenters, work in road construction, etc. They typically work reasonable hours, have medical, and are paid at or above the median income for where they live. They didn't rack up debt getting into this either. This is not a bad deal for many people.

It might be a bad area. There aren't better employers in the area. He knows he is being abused. He used to live and work as an electrician in another country where he was treated considerably better. He spends his days wiring new homes that sell for 1.5M+ and gets treated like crap. Moving is unfortunately not an option because my sister's career is very location-dependent. "Well if you aren't in one of the good area…

$1.5M+ homes is not a bad area

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#446

Post by bluedino »

cwkoss wrote: post #317
bluedino wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the pay that's the problem. if it was, people that work at McDonald's or Walmart would be beating our door down to double their salary

Does your company train unskilled workers? Or are previous skills or credentials required?

No. They will hire people who are taking or have completed classes at the community college as apprentices occasionally.

Companies are afraid to spend money training when they don't think they will have reliable people (based on past experiences)

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#447

Post by [deleted] »

bluedino wrote: post #248
peruvian wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your current pay rate isn't working — who cares what other jobs pay in comparison? Pay $10-15 more an hour and you will see more applicants.

You can't do that in a union shop. You have to increase everyone's pay and there isn't money for that.

[deleted]

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#448

Post by karaterobot »

greatpostman wrote: post #206
bluedino wrote: post #139

I was working for an aerospace manufacturer for a while. We were getting 40/50 year old apprentices for the trades, guys coming off the production floor. Electricians, millwrights, CNC machinists... we couldn't find enough of them. I get it. Nobody wants to stand in front of a machine (or 5-6 machines) for 10 hours a day. Nobody wants to be in a 90 degree factory all day. Nobody wants to work 2nd or 3rd shifts. The p…

25/30 hr is not great. Hate to tell you

Small point: According to Indeed, the (average?) salary for a machinist at Boeing is $87k, so it'd be more like $40-45 an hour these days.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#449

Post by acchow »

WalterBright wrote: post #295
jjulius wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Yoga poses are purposeful, they're supposed to be beneficial. Contorting your body all sorts of odd ways while performing a trade is an entirely separate thing from a yoga pose.

Have you ever tried yoga? You might change your mind if you had. It's not a joke.

Yoga is not a joke. But like other exercises, there are "correct" forms so that you minimize bodily harm.

When you're doing an electrical job, you might have to put your body in strange contortions that don't follow any harm reducing "correct" forms.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#450

Post by dinkumthinkum »

bubblematrix wrote: post #10
Ancalagon wrote: post #4

Same labor shortage as everywhere that the government likes to pretend doesn't exist. 10 million working-age men can't or won't work. Of the ones willing to work, almost none want to spend their time learning skills for back-breaking, barely-middle class skills jobs which they'll be forced to retire from at 55 because their knees give out. Same answer for the shortage as everywhere that the economists don't want to h…

Independent plumbers/local plumbing businesses can easily earn $1,000/day with 2-3 service calls. Not sure how universal healthcare, PTO, immigration, and more pay have to do with this. Edit: Thank you for all the downvotes for me calling out the weird correlation between tech benefits/politics and plumber skill-shortage + high-reward wages. Your wokeism will forever benefit society.

I dislike wokeism as much as anyone else but what does this have to do with being some. I think the idea that plumbers make $1,000 a day as if that translates to their salary is a bit silly. How many plumbers fob you out see riding around in Lambos or do you think they are just too modest for that?
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