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The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

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Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#201

Post by dogman144 »

nostrademons wrote: post #24

Tradespeople will be the new software engineers in the late 2020s through 2030s. Enough that I'm considering leaving my cushy FAANG engineering manager job to become an electrician. On top of the huge supply shortage, consider that the majority of the U.S. housing stock was built during the Baby Boom suburbanization from 1950-1970, and that the average lifespan of a house's internal systems (plumbing, electrical) is…

I’ve thought similar.

With a nest egg you keep in your back pocket that can get you out of a shop hierarchy and into ownership quickly, accounting for Lego houses and whatever other innovations, programming some of your own stuff as needed, there’s a path for honest workers who are really good and on time to make good money. Pick a wealthy area as your operating zone. Leverage the SWE social class and your trade skills.

My relatives who own mom and pop contracting and plumbing companies have carved out solid lives for themselves and their kids. The downside is they’re working into their 60s, but with a good nest egg from tech that might be different.

My relatives who rode the MBA and finance paths ended up all over the map - didn’t survive the Great Recession, did fine, are in tech but it’s lost the shine, ended up as a total goober as retired executive without a company to exec…

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#202

Post by eddsh1994 »

Ekaros wrote: post #104
mrcrumb1 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relying on entrepreneurship for your livelihood and retirement as you age sounds like it'll only work for a select few

Unless there is massive population growth. Single older person can employ only so many juniors. Or other older people have to exit the market.

Or there's an increase in new buildings, or the number of buildings needing repairs increase over time, etc... With trades the number of self-employed or owners is quite high - you can either do Job A by yourself for $X for company Foo, or be self-employed and do Job A by yourself for $X++. Same number of jobs exist, just less monopolized by larger companies. I don't know why, but this is what I found in the south-west of England when I lived there. I think the experienced people tend to start those orgs to charge more then get older and need to hire apprentices to do the work for them, and so the cycle continues.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#203

Post by maxsilver »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #178
maxsilver wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone learns the law of supply and demand before adulthood, or if they haven't then they shouldn't be going to college anyway. Yeah, the problem is that the "law of supply and demand" is a simple metaphor to help children gently begin learning economics, not how anything actually works. Almost no price any real person encounter anywhere in their daily life is actually determined in any meaningful way by "supply"…

> no price any real person encounter anywhere in their daily life is actually determined in any meaningful way by "supply" or "demand" Case in point. > how every hospital is short staffed and desperate for nurses (high demand), while we also constantly law nurses off or reduce hours (and nursing has consistently-fixed low salaries, despite the shortages) How many paying patients are they turning away on account of th…

> How many paying patients are they turning away on account of this supposed shortage?

That's not how it works. Generally speaking, any publicly funded hospital in the US must take patients by law, they can not turn away patients except under very specific circumstances.

> There isn't a national nurse shortage

Literally everyone disagrees with you:

- The New York Times - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/15/us/hospital-nursing-short... - University of St Augustine - https://www.usa.edu/blog/nursing-shortage/ - University of California SF - https://scienceofcaring.ucsf.edu/patient-care/nursing-shorta... - Center for American Progress - https://www.americanprogress.org/about-us/ - McKinsey and Co - https://www.hcinnovationgroup.com/policy-value-based-care/st... - Both the US Democratic Party and US Republican Party - https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/347826-bo...

> that's out of an inability to pay traveling nurse rates.

If you pay extra to import a nurse (traveling nurses) you remove them from the area they were previously. That's great, but it's not a fix for a shortage, that's just relocating the shortage somewhere else.

And, if they're short, why aren't they able to pay traveling nurse rates? Medical revenues are at an all time high, prices too. There's no reason a hospital couldn't pay higher nursing rates, they just choose not to, because again, that figure is not determined by supply or demand.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#204

Post by hypertele-Xii »

SideQuark wrote: post #99
Ancalagon wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d be surprised. Sometimes quality of life is better spent not working when you can lean on family and friends Or your own small retirement fund. Not saying someone’s life choices are right or wrong one way or the other in this case. I’m very grateful for my position but would be lying if I didn’t say I day dreamt occasionally about quitting work and living like a backpacker.

>Sometimes quality of life is better spent not working when you can lean on family and friends Or your own small retirement fund. And then when enough do, and the result becomes a lifetime of un/under-employment, then they want the retirements or lives of those before or around them, who do you think will pick up the slack? Sure, quit and be a backpacker. Doing it a while is fun, probably even healthy, but a lifetime…

> who do you think will pick up the slack?

Machines? Volunteers? Hobbyists? Artists? Researchers? Bored people?

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#205

Post by t-writescode »

rcme wrote: post #198
bluedino wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not that many jobs that pay that much around here. However, our Seattle location has that problem. It was almost closed down because of competition. edit: can't reply to the person who replied below, but if you have a contract to sell parts to a company you can't just increase your worker pay to whatever you want and have it be sustainable.

> There's not that many jobs that pay that much around here. Hiring movers to pack your stuff and move it across the country costs a few thousand dollars, and it's never been easier to rent an apartment via online showings. Your competition is a lot broader than your immediate geographic area.

This is a few thousand dollars when something like half the nation can’t afford a $500 surprise bill, right?

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#206

Post by greatpostman »

bluedino wrote: post #139

I was working for an aerospace manufacturer for a while. We were getting 40/50 year old apprentices for the trades, guys coming off the production floor. Electricians, millwrights, CNC machinists... we couldn't find enough of them. I get it. Nobody wants to stand in front of a machine (or 5-6 machines) for 10 hours a day. Nobody wants to be in a 90 degree factory all day. Nobody wants to work 2nd or 3rd shifts. The p…

25/30 hr is not great. Hate to tell you

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#207

Post by thatjoeoverthr »

bluedino wrote: post #167
omginternets wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, has your employer tried paying more? There are a fair few desk jobs that pay $25-30/hr, and it's entirely possible that people are trading job stability for something that isn't so physically demanding.

There's not that many jobs that pay that much around here. However, our Seattle location has that problem. It was almost closed down because of competition. edit: can't reply to the person who replied below, but if you have a contract to sell parts to a company you can't just increase your worker pay to whatever you want and have it be sustainable.

> There's not that many jobs that pay that much around here.

So, I shouldn't be around there?

> you can't just increase your worker pay to whatever you want

I respect that it's a challenge, but job seekers aren't responsible for solving Boeing's supply chain problems. Either the job is important enough to draw people into it, or it isn't.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#208

Post by lotsofpulp »

bluedino wrote: post #167
omginternets wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, has your employer tried paying more? There are a fair few desk jobs that pay $25-30/hr, and it's entirely possible that people are trading job stability for something that isn't so physically demanding.

There's not that many jobs that pay that much around here. However, our Seattle location has that problem. It was almost closed down because of competition. edit: can't reply to the person who replied below, but if you have a contract to sell parts to a company you can't just increase your worker pay to whatever you want and have it be sustainable.

>but if you have a contract to sell parts to a company you can't just increase your worker pay to whatever you want and have it be sustainable.

Renegotiating a contract sounds more sustainable than not having workers.

The bottom line is always that the pay to quality of life at work is insufficient.

>Nobody wants to stand in front of a machine (or 5-6 machines) for 10 hours a day. Nobody wants to be in a 90 degree factory all day. Nobody wants to work 2nd or 3rd shifts.

>The pay isn't incredible. $25-30/hr. You get overtime.

For this much, there are lots of office jobs in front of a computer with zero risk of injury where you can sit. And overtime is not worth much if you do not get to enjoy life outside of work.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#209

Post by peruvian »

bluedino wrote: post #167
omginternets wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, has your employer tried paying more? There are a fair few desk jobs that pay $25-30/hr, and it's entirely possible that people are trading job stability for something that isn't so physically demanding.

There's not that many jobs that pay that much around here. However, our Seattle location has that problem. It was almost closed down because of competition. edit: can't reply to the person who replied below, but if you have a contract to sell parts to a company you can't just increase your worker pay to whatever you want and have it be sustainable.

Your current pay rate isn't working — who cares what other jobs pay in comparison? Pay $10-15 more an hour and you will see more applicants.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#210

Post by ghaff »

falcolas wrote: post #179
ghaff wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, reasonably lucrative part-time work for someone coming from a professional role is tricky. And even more so if you really want to have fairly fine-grained control around both weekly workload and longer vacations. Well-paying work that lets you just pick and choose something here and there and then take a month off if you feel like it are pretty uncommon.

You're 100% not wrong. I think in many cases through it's supplementing insufficient retirement funds, so even a low skill low wage part time job (making/selling art, garden fruits/vegetables, foods, etc) may be sufficient to provide enough runway for existing retirement funds.

Absolutely. And some people also seem to like that some of these jobs provide human interaction. Some of my private car drivers seem in this category.

I'm more talking about situations where it's not mostly for the money but rather continuing the things people have enjoyed doing professionally without doing it full-time and without most of the downsides.

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