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The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

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Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#361

Post by michaelt »

dionidium wrote: post #174
joecot wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a millennial. First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. So everyone went and got a college degree, and since so many people had it it wasn't a status symbol anymore, so that wasn't enough to get a good middle class job. And then a bunch of people were told they shouldn't have gotten those degrees and they were worthless. Then we were told to go into STEM. So lots of peop…

> First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. Something strange is happening here that I can't quite understand. Jokes about English majors asking if you want fries with that are way older than me and I first started college in 1999. Yes, I heard a persistent low rumbling of "go to college," but the idea that "any degree would do" is alien to me. Of course I knew that some maj…

> Yes, I heard a persistent low rumbling of "go to college," but the idea that "any degree would do" is alien to me.

I certainly knew people in ~2000 who were going to college to study things like psychology, who felt the abstract skills of 'learning to learn', writing, reasoning with a bit of statistics and spreadsheet operation would help them get jobs like marketing, sales, analysts, strategic consulting, HR etc.

I suspect if you got your degree in psychology from Harvard, that might be true - but if your degree is from a mediocre university, probably not.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#362

Post by brewdad »

jjk166 wrote: post #316
stcroixx wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of FAANG outliers and SV, have software engineer wages really rocketed up? I've worked outside the FAANG world at companies of various sizes and industries for 25 years and haven't seen it. If anything, I'd say wage growth has been kept artificially low by H1B competition from folks born in low cost of living countries under threat of deportation if they object to the abuse they receive. The average corporate…

I'm in Philadelphia, software jobs around here pay about 2-3 times what other engineering disciplines pay for the same level of experience.

How quickly do you hit the salary ceiling though? That's what I've seen. Software devs make a lot more than other engineers when starting out. By 7-10 years of experience, the gap is much, much narrower.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#363

Post by karaterobot »

WalterBright wrote: post #266
vanderZwan wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company sending you a high bill doesn't automatically mean the guy who fixed your house gets paid well though, does it?

They were one man shops. 20 years ago, the going rate for installing a socket in an existing wired and ready to go junction box was $50. It's about a 5 minute job. I know it's about 5 minutes because I've done a lot of them myself. I'm sure prices have gone up a lot in the last couple decades.

One thing about contractors is that you're paying them for the time they aren't working.

As in, they're probably not working steadily, 40 hours a week, every week, but they still have bills to pay, and this down time must be factored into their rates for the profession to be sustainable.

On the other hand, if they DO work 40 hours a week, every single week, they can probably afford to raise their rates...

Have not been an electrician, but I have been a software contractor, and the idea is the same.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#364

Post by lotsofpulp »

WalterBright wrote: post #262
falcolas wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the wear-and-tear on your brain from an office job will always be significantly lower (and thus remain a viable job for much longer) than a job in the figurative or literal trenches.

Sitting in a chair all day is not good for your health long term.

No one is forced to sit. For example, sit stand desks, and waking breaks.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#365

Post by MisterBastahrd »

digianarchist wrote: post #340

I remember back when I was 17 in 2004, I applied for an apprenticeship to work at Jaguar-Land Rover as an Electrical Engineering Technician. I turned up to the interview to be told that there were 2 welding apprenticeships left and those would be filled from the 150+ candidates that turned up. Without an apprenticeship you couldn't study a trade at college. You couldn't get an apprenticeship unless you knew someone t…

The process operator positions at the local refineries back home are all filled through nepotism. You either had to know someone or your father had to be an operator in order to even get an interview: hundreds of people would show up for the exam and the ones who actually got positions were not the brightest people showing up. They just happened to have dads and uncles who worked there.

The fun thing is that my dad got the job at the plant he worked for because of my grandfather and older brother. During a tech downturn, I applied for a few of these jobs. My dad refused to vouch for me, claiming that he didn't want to continue the cycle of nepotism. Sure didn't hate to earn huge bonuses from that cycle, though.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#366

Post by Workaccount2 »

pleb_nz wrote: post #338
UncleMeat wrote: post #33

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

Is this more of a US issue? I'm ex tradesman and know a lot of tradespeople in my part of the world and they're often some of the best off and fittest people I know. Being on your feet all day and moving around seems to be good for the human body rather than sitting behind a desk for 8 hours which we now is incredibly bad for you.

There is a spectrum here. Plenty of tradesmen "living the retired life" at 50 with two blown knees and a bad back.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#367

Post by footlose_3815 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #33

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

This is why Unions are important, and electricians have the IBEW has an option.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#368

Post by aksss »

jonatron wrote: post #245
peruvian wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech people always say this but forget that being a plumber means being on their knees wading thru poop water and likely being unable to work when you reach a certain, fairly young age. I get it, trades are important, but let's not glamorize them.

Not all countries have toilets that block as easily as American / Canadian toilets. So wading through dirty water is less likely in the UK for example.

Well, being an outhouse carpenter sucks too!

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#369

Post by asdff »

notch656c wrote: post #333
asdff wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that didn't cost you nothing then. Then what did you do when you got off the plane? Presumably you paid a security deposit for an apartment and didn't just camp on BLM land. For someone with no credit history, a landlord might ask for 4 months rent as a deposit these days.

When I was working shit jobs for minimum wage in Washington I hitchhiked to North Dakota's oil rush and slept in a train yard. It literally cost me nothing. When an able bodied, single, mentally competent and healthy young person says they don't have enough money to move across country it is actually code for "I have no initiative so I will sit and cry like a pathetic child." Meanwhile people are successfully walking…

You made it fine, and others who try and hitchhike sometimes end up robbed, kidnapped, or worse. Don't blame an entire generation for not doing something that you know for a fact comes with a ton of risk.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#370

Post by adastra22 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #337
WalterBright wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the price I was quoted to do the whole house, not one socket. $50 per outlet. If I hired one to come out and do one socket, I'd be sure to get a $200 site visit charge added on.

This is what a contractor does when he doesn't want the job because it's basically too small and would be more of an annoyance than anything worth doing. Bid an outrageous amount and then if the client says "yes" at least you're making some money. He's probably got a backlog of large jobs he can make more money on. So if he's going to come out and do outlet installation on one house, he's going to bid an amount that…

I can confirm that is the the going rate right now.
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