Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 915 posts

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#121

Post by falcolas »

megaman821 wrote: post #114
bryanlarsen wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The median income for a plumber is $50k, only 10% make above $91k. https://insights.workwave.com/industry/plumbing-electrical/p... 6-figure incomes for plumbers are rare.

Where is all the money people paying tradespeople going? If I need any plumbing work done it costs me $200 an hour or more. Even with overhead and expenses, 10 hours a week gets you more than $50k a year. Twenty years ago my grandfather was a marine plumber and made $200k a year. How many apprentices and part-time plumber are in these datasets?

Same places it always has? Insurance, materials, taxes, wages, profits.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#122

Post by joecot »

yucky wrote: post #120
joecot wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a millennial. First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. So everyone went and got a college degree, and since so many people had it it wasn't a status symbol anymore, so that wasn't enough to get a good middle class job. And then a bunch of people were told they shouldn't have gotten those degrees and they were worthless. Then we were told to go into STEM. So lots of peop…

> we've been given the wrong advice for so long we just stopped listening. Shouldn't we recognize that things change and life can be unpredictable? Rather than being jaded that every adult in our lives didn't have a magical crystal ball, maybe there are more productive things that can be done? Gen Z & younger Millennials constantly get shit for blaming everyone else for everything always, and taking no responsibility…

The original premise was that trades are where all the money is, and Gen Z should be listening to that. My point is that we were previously told: the money is in college degrees, the money is in STEM, the money is in nursing. And people invested a lot of time and money in taking that advice and it went nowhere. Then we were called stupid and foolish and entitled for believing that advice.

So why aren't Gen Z taking this magical advice on trades? Because they know older generations don't have a crystal ball, they've seen what happens if they listen to that crystal ball advice, and they're not falling for it. And if you talk to Gen Z, they have very little hope for the future, given we are doing very little to stop climate change, runaway capitalism, and they're watching jobs get automated without any change to the "cost of living" agreement when people are watching jobs disappear.

Boomers don't have to worry about any of that anymore. And there's nothing more tone deaf than Boomers giving advice on a world that no longer exists for younger generations.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#123

Post by Avshalom »

falcolas wrote: post #118
UncleMeat wrote: post #33

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

> It isn't a bad career But there is a finite end to the career - when your body gives out. That's the biggest problem with the trades, you're selling your health and body. And eventually the body parts will wear out, on a schedule decided as much by genetics as how you live.

>there is a finite end to the career

this actually brings to mind something else:

I think the idea of a career is dead for a lot of the 40 and under set. The idea that you'll have the same job for decades is just nonsense so any job that feels too specific also feels like a it'll bite you in the ass in 5 years.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#124

Post by UncleMeat »

oceanplexian wrote: post #85
UncleMeat wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tradespeople will definitely not be making 300k+ off a few years of experience five years from now.

I think this is actually one of those predictions that might not turn out the way you think. Economies are all about supply and demand, not how long or complicated the job title is. The government is increasingly ignoring the problem, the higher-education-industrial-complex is grabbing workers that would otherwise go into the trades, mass-importation of unskilled labor is slowing down as it becomes more of a politica…

Economies are about supply and demand. But wages are not directly tied to the demand for the trades. Wages are controlled by the bosses. Even if the price of wiring up a new home goes up, I would not expect the bulk of that increase to be reflected in the wages of the electricians (at least in the US).

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#125

Post by UncleMeat »

eddsh1994 wrote: post #48
UncleMeat wrote: post #33

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

This is why Unions exist, no? Personally I sometimes wonder if I'd have enjoyed plumbing water more than plumbing code as I'd be meeting more people face to face, physically active, and it can get surprisingly complex (Berkeley, I think, offers a postgrad cert in plumbing buildings like sky scrapers which I saw advertised the other day)

Yes.

My brother in law lives in SC where unionization and labor protection is especially weak. I don't think that the balance of power is going to shift away from the bosses and towards him any time soon.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#126

Post by falcolas »

Avshalom wrote: post #123
falcolas wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It isn't a bad career But there is a finite end to the career - when your body gives out. That's the biggest problem with the trades, you're selling your health and body. And eventually the body parts will wear out, on a schedule decided as much by genetics as how you live.

>there is a finite end to the career this actually brings to mind something else: I think the idea of a career is dead for a lot of the 40 and under set. The idea that you'll have the same job for decades is just nonsense so any job that feels too specific also feels like a it'll bite you in the ass in 5 years.

A good point. I think it's even dead for the over 40 crowd, as they try and slide into a new career which they can work part time and make a living on. Given how questionable retirement as a reality is these days.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#127

Post by UncleMeat »

mfer wrote: post #91
UncleMeat wrote: post #33

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

This isn't the case for all trades people. It might be a bad area or a bad employer. I've know trades folks who are electricians, plumbers, carpenters, work in road construction, etc. They typically work reasonable hours, have medical, and are paid at or above the median income for where they live. They didn't rack up debt getting into this either. This is not a bad deal for many people.

It might be a bad area. There aren't better employers in the area. He knows he is being abused. He used to live and work as an electrician in another country where he was treated considerably better. He spends his days wiring new homes that sell for 1.5M+ and gets treated like crap. Moving is unfortunately not an option because my sister's career is very location-dependent.

"Well if you aren't in one of the good areas you'll get fucked" doesn't tend to make it into articles like the linked above and I think it is worth knowing.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#128

Post by adamsmith143 »

Ancalagon wrote: post #79
tpmx wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In e.g. Scandinavia: The salary difference between say a software dev and a trade worker is pretty small (perhaps 30% less after taxes). The body breaking down aspect is still an issue. Younger people in these fields seem a lot more aware though - they're practically health freaks compared to your stereotypical 50-ish somewhat round trade worker with back pain issues. I guess we'll have to wait and see how that gener…

30% is the difference between $100k and $70k. That's a lot of money...

Well relatively speaking your lifestyle isn't likely going to change dramatically between those two incomes. In the US the difference is several hundred percent.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#129

Post by yucky »

joecot wrote: post #122
yucky wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we've been given the wrong advice for so long we just stopped listening. Shouldn't we recognize that things change and life can be unpredictable? Rather than being jaded that every adult in our lives didn't have a magical crystal ball, maybe there are more productive things that can be done? Gen Z & younger Millennials constantly get shit for blaming everyone else for everything always, and taking no responsibility…

The original premise was that trades are where all the money is, and Gen Z should be listening to that. My point is that we were previously told: the money is in college degrees, the money is in STEM, the money is in nursing. And people invested a lot of time and money in taking that advice and it went nowhere. Then we were called stupid and foolish and entitled for believing that advice. So why aren't Gen Z taking t…

    > The original premise was that trades are where all the money is
Nobody has ever said the "trades are where all the money is". This premise is flawed already.

    > My point is that we were previously told: the money is in college degrees, the money is in STEM, the money is in nursing. And people invested a lot of time and money in taking that advice and it went nowhere.
It still is. It sounds like too many people have deluded themselves into thinking college is a public jobs program and if they show up and get a piece of paper they will be the most in demand in those fields. However, that requires an illogical leap on their part to believe that any and every person in a field will be at the top of their field and thus command exorbitant salaries. It defies logic. Plenty of people still make good money in those fields, and still will years from now. But not everyone is entitled to make a ton of money in any fields their heart desires.

Everyone learns the law of supply and demand before adulthood, or if they haven't then they shouldn't be going to college anyway. So if the supply of labor in a field increases beyond the demand, what would we expect to happen?

Also, if you're really good at something people will generally pay you more than they'll pay people who are mediocre. Maybe the problem is younger generations can't wrap their heads around the fact that a lot of people are mediocre. Not everyone is special or a superstar or whatever, so maybe this egalitarian mindset is the issue.

This isn't boomer shit, I'm far too young to be a boomer. It seems like common sense. Is this not common sense?

Post reply on HN