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Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

economist.com

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Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#81

Post by aardvarkr »

samwillis wrote: post #50
msoad wrote: post #4

I have a Tesla and I also hold a short position on TSLA. My Tesla is a great car. The best car that I've ever driven but I'm not sure if it has anything that other car manufacturers can't replicate. I think Apple can make an even better car than Tesla if they build the hardware and software like their phones and computers. The idea that Autopilot has some magic sauce that nobody else can replicate is laughable.

Autopilot [FSD] is a boondoggle that is a distraction from their core mission. They have wasted time and resources on it, when by now they should have a cheaper mass market car and a full suite of commercial vehicles (small vans to large trucks). Edit: yes meant FSD

I strongly disagree. Autopilot is what made them COOL and gave them their secret sauce. I used to be a major fan back in 2015 and that was an incredibly momentous initiative that cannot be understated. You can say this now with the benefit of hindsight but do not make the mistake of assuming it was all just a waste of money. Autopilot was a key driver in the hype and fanaticism that turned Tesla from a hip startup into the trendsetter for the entire industry.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#82

Post by elteto »

samwillis wrote: post #50
msoad wrote: post #4

I have a Tesla and I also hold a short position on TSLA. My Tesla is a great car. The best car that I've ever driven but I'm not sure if it has anything that other car manufacturers can't replicate. I think Apple can make an even better car than Tesla if they build the hardware and software like their phones and computers. The idea that Autopilot has some magic sauce that nobody else can replicate is laughable.

Autopilot [FSD] is a boondoggle that is a distraction from their core mission. They have wasted time and resources on it, when by now they should have a cheaper mass market car and a full suite of commercial vehicles (small vans to large trucks). Edit: yes meant FSD

Wrong. Autopilot is a pretty standard smart cruise control, which many other carmakers have and have had for years. It works and it works well. You are thinking of FSD.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#83

Post by mavhc »

nradov wrote: post #63
mavhc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use the app to unlock the door https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_cn/GUID-F907200...

It's hilarious that anyone would consider this an acceptable work around for such an idiotic design flaw.

It's fine for 99.9% of the time, and saves you energy. Also reduces noise when moving.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#84

Post by snordgren »

GalenErso wrote: post #11
arcticbull wrote: post #3

Cathie Wood is not going to like this. I think her bear case is TSLA is a $7T company by 2026. I can’t say I agree with her.

The entire worldwide car industry won't be worth 7 trillion dollars in 2026.

Car companies were asleep at the wheel before Tesla. Selling EVs is perfect because they have lower OpEx at the cost of a higher CapEx. Higher CapEx means more revenue for the car manufacturers, and higher valuations in the long run if they can maintain their profit margin.

Car manufacturing will be a more valuable industry as EVs become the standard, but definitely not fast enough to quadruple the value of the industry in a handful of years. Not unless we start overvaluing every company like Tesla.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#85

Post by helen___keller »

msoad wrote: post #4

I have a Tesla and I also hold a short position on TSLA. My Tesla is a great car. The best car that I've ever driven but I'm not sure if it has anything that other car manufacturers can't replicate. I think Apple can make an even better car than Tesla if they build the hardware and software like their phones and computers. The idea that Autopilot has some magic sauce that nobody else can replicate is laughable.

> The idea that Autopilot has some magic sauce that nobody else can replicate is laughable.

Openpilot by comma is very equivalent to autopilot (not FSD) and can be added on to a boring cheap car (depending on that car's compatibility) like a prius, corolla, or sonata, all for just about $2,000 dollars. Granted, it's a "dev-kit", requires a bit of research to install, but if you can pass the barrier it's really equivalent to autopilot and available to consumers at a price point that Tesla is not.

And if you don't want the latest and greatest (comma 3) you can get a used comma 2 or a comma knock-off "Mr One" for a few hundred dollars and still have an excellent experience for basic level 2 functionality (automated highway navigation, essentially)

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#86

Post by rootusrootus »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #8

Why are Rivian and Lucid stocks also getting hammered? All 3 seem to move together. Feels more like EV stocks being dumped.

Rivian, for one, spends over twice as much to build a car than they end up selling it for. The disparity is larger than Tesla's has ever been, as I recall, and there's every reason to believe they can't simply scale their way out of it. They have to figure out how to fundamentally build the car using less than half the effort and material it takes today.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#87

Post by dylan604 »

md_ wrote: post #35
jelliclesfarm wrote: post #27

Tesla owns so much data that it has collected(and will only continue to amass more in the future)from its customers that it is the very definition of a successful tech company. Economist is an embarrassment for journalism.

That's an odd definition for "tech company." Is your point, though, that that data are valuable? If so, what for?

Selling to interested buyers to use that information in target ad campaigns?

--I want to target my new car advertising campaign at any Tesla owner with FSD that recently had a wreck or near-wreck.

--I want to target my bloated overpriced techy product that will collect all sorts of personal data specifically at Tesla owners as they are clearly okay with this behavior.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#88

Post by pjdemers »

Tesla, and even more Uber, were priced as if self driving cars are almost here. The idea that services like Uber without the drivers would make car ownership obsolete drove those valuations. Now that self driving cars are many decades away, instead of less than one decade away, is bring stock prices down. I always questions how fast we would see self driving cars, not because of the technology, but because of consumer demand. There was a survey a few years ago of how much more people would be willing to pay for cars that could drive themself, and the median answer was $0. This is because quite a few people gave a negative number, that is, they would pay extra for a car that could not drive itself.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#89

Post by philipov »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #20
philipov wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their main business does not involve selling information technology to other people and companies, they're not a tech company.

> selling tech to other companies By that measure, Apple and Google aren’t tech companies. (Apple sells devices to consumers. Google sells ads to companies.) They are. They just aren’t software companies.

Google isn't a tech company, it's an ad company. Apple is a tech company because they sell computers, which are information systems: Hardware counts. Chip manufacturers are also good examples of tech companies.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#90

Post by musasabi »

cainxinth wrote: post #45
judge2020 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference seems to be that Tesla was 5-10 years ahead on everything: Minimalistic interiors, modern infotainment, mobile app performance, and of course they lead the way in making electric cars viable by showing that they can both look good and blast off in record time. But you're right that other automakers see Tesla as a threat and are catching up; for example, the range and charging curve improvements on mode…

> Minimalistic interiors, modern infotainment, mobile app performance None of that is why Tesla was ahead of everyone for so long. It's because their cars have better range, and Tesla is still the range leader. They held four of the top six spots in 2022, and the number one is the Lucid Air (only 3k of them have actually been sold): https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/g32634624/ev-lo... Also, I just want to…

They also have by far the best charging network. IMO Teslas have the best long range driving experience. This detail is important although not the only thing to consider. However, it looms large in how Americans think about their cars.

I say this as someone who owns an electric car by a different manufacturer.

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