‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#801

Post by SpeedilyDamage » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 5:57 AM UTC

sdf4j wrote: post #797

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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How would you explain skinny smokers then? or skinny drug addicts? This whole "intellectual willpower" thesis is so stupid it's insulting.

Most "skinny" drug users are on drugs that have side effects including weight loss.

What's insulting is to take away the accomplishment of the fat folks who got healthy by claiming it was just their genetics that let them stop being fat, but also somehow their genetics that caused them to get fat in the first place?

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#802

Post by raegis » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:03 AM UTC

Sophistifunk wrote: post #690

0xB31B1B wrote: post #21

I’m currently taking one of these drugs and it has been no less than a miracle in my life. I became obese when I was around 5, topping out around a 34 BMI. When I was 20 I lost a substantial amount of weight the old fashioned way (diet and exercise), and within 8 months I was BMI 23. Losing weight was extremely challenging and socially isolating. 7 years later, I had a bad ankle injury and regained weight to about 29…

Fat guy here: these side effects are pretty scary for somebody like me. 3 months of noticeably extra fatigue on top of my current baseline level of exhaustion seems to threaten serious psychological effects. 3 months of brain-fog sounds like a great way to get fired and really fuck up my life. If my "gastro situation" was noticeably worse than the unpredictable wildy-swinging nightmare it already is, I honestly have…

Another fat guy here. I haven't taken any of these drugs, but I stopped eating processed food (or anything with added sugar), avoided late night snacks, and lost around 30 pounds in 8 months as a result. I had the fatigue and such early in the process, but it sorted itself out eventually. The most important thing I recognized was that if I avoided eating late at night, I didn't feel awful waking up in the morning. I'm embarrassed to say it took more than a year to change my behavior, despite my clear understanding of the harm of snacking all the time.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#803

Post by Auracle » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:08 AM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #649

danielvaughn wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just saying the exact same thing to my wife yesterday. We’re both trying to lose weight, for the millionth time in the 20 years we’ve been together. Exasperated, I just said “I don’t get it. I was an artist who had no technical background, and was able to teach myself computer science and now I’m a highly successful engineer. I did that. And yet I can’t lose 10 pounds to save my life.” It’s so hard to eat healt…

> It’s so hard to eat healthy, I honestly cannot fathom how people do it. When I started taking semaglutide, I finally understood it. I'd eat a salad... and be full and more than satisfied! I'd look at a muffin right after lunch, and go "eh, better things to do with my time" instead of immediately having an overriding desire to eat eat eat. Before, I could eat half a pizza and still be hungry (way out of what my body…

I'm sorry, but I'm a decently in shape person that tried semaglutide for reasons other than losing weight and I disagree.

While I'm sure we all are a bit different satiety wise (and I've found it greatly depends on how much I've been eating overall recently), your experience on the drug is not what the rest of us feel like all the time. It's unfortunately normal for our biology to basically want to shove calories down our mouths all the time. I consciously pace my food intake every single day. I just had a huge plate of nachos, some christmas cookies, and a pickle...and I could still eat more. The only reason I ate that much is because I feel a cold coming on so I relaxed my usual limits.

The kind of "fullness" you get on semaglutide isn't natural. I've never felt like that my entire life. The closest thing would be after something like a Thanksgiving meal, but that's more of a "my stomach hurts" than "I really don't feel like I can put more in my stomach."

My sister in law is the skinniest, most in shape person I know. She's 35, has had 3 kids, and has abs, an ass she clearly worked for, etc. My wife (unfortunately) regularly compares herself to her and in this case also thinks like you, that it just comes naturally. She gave me her old phone so I could test some stuff on it as I don't have an Android phone handy. She didn't wipe it. MyFitnessPal was on there, and she was limiting herself to 1400 calories a day.

Almost all of us work for it. Truth be told, and please hold your downvotes for this, I get a little upset when the rest of you get to have insurance pay ridiculous sums of money for a medication that makes it easier for you than the rest of us, side effects aside, and you think it's simply evening out the playing field.

And it needs to be said in case my wife ever finds this: she's also ridiculously hot and even though she can't see it has, at times, been skinnier than her sister.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#804

Post by Auracle » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:12 AM UTC

notacoward wrote: post #647

windpower wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also on one of these drugs (Tirzepatide) and have been for a few months. The first time I remember knowing I was fat was when a babysitter made fun of me for it at age 6. I've been fat ever since and I'm in my late 30s now. I've lost significant amounts of weight (60+ pounds) three times in my adult life, through simple calorie restriction (intermittent fasting, including before I'd ever heard the term). Every ti…

> people that have never actually been fat. "I did it and I lost 15 pounds Also people who have never had an older metabolism. It's different. I was also skinny despite eating a ton and hardly exercising when I was 25. Everyone I know over about 30 can identify when their metabolism suddenly changed. Diet (and to a lesser extent exercise) advice from those who haven't hit their own wall yet is worthless for those who…

A recent study found basically no change in metabolism from the age of 20-60: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58186710

People usually just start packing on a few pounds a year (or more) in their 20s and it adds up.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#805

Post by SamPatt » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:14 AM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #718

auganov wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing is, I'm never full. I can eat until I physically can't eat anymore (not something I do regularly, of course), and as soon as my stomach has emptied a bit, I feel fairly hungry again. "Eat until you feel full" is literally a human experience I had never really had. I feel exactly the way you do, and yes, I was fat, lost it in one go and never gained it back. I try to keep my BMI around 18, never went over…

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Counting calories correctly is really hard.

I've lost 90 lbs, achieved a healthy body weight, and kept it off for years, but I keep trying to lose just 10 more pounds. I only make progress when I'm religious about calorie counting, including weighing every meal or needing to do precise food prep beforehand.

That's such a pain in the ass that I inevitably fail and keep returning to my body's new average weight.

I think you're right about truly obese people. They're eating so many calories that they would lose weight if they could manage a better diet.

For people who aren't obese, the same principle may apply, but it's now a matter of much tighter margins and much greater precision, and it's remarkably difficult.

Natural bodybuilders seem to manage their weight with precision, so it's not impossible with knowledge and effort. But I suspect very few people are capable of managing that if they tend towards obesity to begin with.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#806

Post by Auracle » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:19 AM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #558

KirillPanov wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I expect to be on this drug long term This is a feature, not a bug. If this drug produced some kind of permanent physical change, that would be a pretty scary thing.

Erm, the intented permanent physical change for the user is establishing normal weight, at which point you would assume, that you can establish healthy routines and ideally move on without the drug. But the drug is designed (intentionally or not) in a way, that makes this very hard, keeping the user dependant on it. So I would call this a bug, but I can see people still choosing it over the alternative.

How so? Why can't people simply stop taking it once they reach their goal weight?

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#807

Post by Auracle » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:21 AM UTC

kfarr wrote: post #547

paulpauper wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly palatable caloric dense food means that people are more incline to gain weight without even trying. 100+ years ago you had to make a more an effort to overeat.

And extremely sedentary lifestyle in US

Right. When I'm walking 5 hours a day on my treadmill I can eat whatever the hell I want and not gain weight.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#808

Post by SamPatt » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:23 AM UTC

jononomo wrote: post #744

danielvaughn wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just saying the exact same thing to my wife yesterday. We’re both trying to lose weight, for the millionth time in the 20 years we’ve been together. Exasperated, I just said “I don’t get it. I was an artist who had no technical background, and was able to teach myself computer science and now I’m a highly successful engineer. I did that. And yet I can’t lose 10 pounds to save my life.” It’s so hard to eat healt…

Just eat only liver, eggs, and ribeye steaks -- you can absolutely stuff yourself and you will lose weight. The problem is that as a society we are sending the wrong message about what healthy food is -- nothing from a plant is really good for humans to eat. A diet of only red meat, however, will not only get you in phenomenal shape, but it will also clear up a dozen other major and minor health issues. It is the per…

I support anyone experimenting with their diet to see what works for them, but I wouldn't be so confident about extreme diets like carnivore working for everyone.

Nothing from a plant is healthy? That sort of absolute statement flies in the face of history and common sense and I can't imagine it's true for all humanity.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#809

Post by Auracle » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:24 AM UTC

viro wrote: post #190

bioemerl wrote: post #182

> In the past, scientists and the public often thought that those with obesity simply lacked the willpower to lose weight. But evidence is growing that most people’s bodies have a natural size that can be hard to change. In the context where we have gone from obesity rates of 13 percent to 40, to suggest that people have a natural weight and that's the cause of this seems absurd to me.

And it makes more logical sense to you that everyone is just weak-willed?

Honestly, yeah?

I know I'll get downvoted to hell for this but I could have absolutely nailed a quiz of "who is going to get really fat after high school." Nobody that I would have defined as a "hard worker" has gotten fat.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#810

Post by Blackthorn » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 6:25 AM UTC

Auracle wrote: post #803

scarmig wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s so hard to eat healthy, I honestly cannot fathom how people do it. When I started taking semaglutide, I finally understood it. I'd eat a salad... and be full and more than satisfied! I'd look at a muffin right after lunch, and go "eh, better things to do with my time" instead of immediately having an overriding desire to eat eat eat. Before, I could eat half a pizza and still be hungry (way out of what my body…

I'm sorry, but I'm a decently in shape person that tried semaglutide for reasons other than losing weight and I disagree. While I'm sure we all are a bit different satiety wise (and I've found it greatly depends on how much I've been eating overall recently), your experience on the drug is not what the rest of us feel like all the time. It's unfortunately normal for our biology to basically want to shove calories dow…

> I get a little upset when the rest of you get to have insurance pay ridiculous sums of money for a medication

If this was well and truly about the money you'd support it, because it's going to be cheaper than paying for long-term medical costs of obesity.