‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by halfmatthalfcat » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:32 AM UTC

djur wrote: post #605

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never said I'm better. My point is that these solutions are driven by people looking for easy answers to a hard problem. I refuse to believe people need them but only want them and that may be enough for some.

Saying someone "succumb[ed] to weakness" while you instead "ground it out" and lost weight "the right(er) way" is clearly saying that you're better.

You're free to come to that conclusion but that is not my intention. I'm not a better person than OP but I'm arguing there is a better way to attain their goals.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by timetopay » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:33 AM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #604

scifibestfi wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're seeing the most successful Big Pharma marketing campaign since OxyContin. The Promotion and Marketing of OxyContin: Commercial Triumph, Public Health Tragedy > From 1996 to 2001, Purdue conducted more than 40 national pain-management and speaker-training conferences at resorts in Florida, Arizona, and California. More than 5000 physicians, pharmacists, and nurses attended these all-expenses-paid symposia, where…

That OxyCOntin turned out to be a mass killer does not imply that these drugs are disasters. Similarly, that Penicillin turned out to save millions of lives, doesn't mean that these drugs will be very beneficial. Every day is a new day, every event a potential surprise...

Of course it doesn't imply anything directly about the drug, but it does implicate the pharma industry in willingness to distribute drugs that have long term side effects.

> Every day is a new day, every event a potential surprise...

This is a thought terminating cliche, and has no bearing on pharmacology and societal impact.

These drugs are about to be very heavily prescribed, and widely introduced - when, in fact, they should be slowly rolled out to those who need them the most. People who should be given this drug are those whose weight is so severe that it has immediate effects on negative health outcomes.

There are going to be people who want to drop a couple of BMI points in time for Summer without eating and exercise, and any doctor (or person) who enables this use in the short term (the next 5 years, at least) is irresponsible.

In fact, your example of penicillin is a perfect example: who cares about any potential downsides to a drug when not using the drug has the downside of death?

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by kuhewa » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:33 AM UTC

ajkjk wrote: post #517

bioemerl wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were true I would not expect that changes in our lifestyle would cause broad scale weight increases like they have. I'm very skeptical humans are built with an average set weight way up in the unhealthy range. Or maybe this is the case, but it is thrown off hard by our modern diets. Our natural set point is in the healthy range, but our meal is x calories per Y food now so it ends up artificially high. The ex…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_point_theory may help > but it is thrown off hard by our modern diets. Yes. I think the dominant theory is that it has something to do with gut microbiomes, and in particular sugar and/or artificial sweeteners screw it up pretty badly.

It would seem really odd to me if it was just one aspect of modern lifestyle and diet. I would be shocked if both proliferation of cheap highly processed and hyperpalatable food and declining activity rates/greatly increased in screen time didn't both play a major role.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by zug_zug » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:34 AM UTC

karaterobot wrote: post #576

It's weird that insurance companies won't cover this, considering the cost of treating obesity-related illnesses like diabetes, heart disease, strokes, certain forms of cancer, etc. It's also weird that pharmaceutical manufacturers price this so high, considering the potential size of the market relative to the current size of the market. I guess what I'm saying is: the healthcare industry makes a lot of choices I do…

Well... another way of thinking about this is... if it costs 15,000 a year to treat, I wonder what percentage of those people could lose weight another way for less than $15,000 a year (e.g. free gym membership with classes, personal trainer, and $500 a month bonus if you show up twice a week)

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by ChadNauseam » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:34 AM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #618

eldenbishop wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven't heard anyone talk about the Shangri-La diet in ages. I did a slight variation of this for awhile way back in my 30s at it worked great. Recently testing this out with OMAD but haven't been doing it long enough to see if it is workable. I'm in my 50s now and a lot of things that worked wonders in my 30s do not work as well as they once did.

I'm going to try this because I recently fell off the OMAD wagon, and it usually takes me 3 solid days of white-knuckling it to get back to it feeling natural without wanting to eat during the day. Wondering if some plain celery or olive oil can ease the transition.

Since plain celery has very few calories, I doubt it would help much. It seems to me that you're really fooling your body somehow when you're feeding it calories with no flavor.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by dxhdr » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:34 AM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #322

rychco wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And there's zero reason to believe that they're substantially unhealthy unless consumed to the point of sustained caloric surplus. I have a hard time believing this without some very strong evidence for this claim. There's already existing evidence for greatly varying health effects of differences in cooking method, oil-type, omega ratios in fats, amino-acid ratios in proteins, glycemic index of carbs, sodium conte…

Try to find any major research showing either diet has a significant health impact on either 1) non-overweight individuals who remain non-overweight; or 2) has a health impact after controlling for changes in weight/obesity/body fat. It's virtually non-existent. Perhaps there are small differences on the margin, but all dwarfed by the impact of obesity. Again this shouldn't shock us, because we know hunter-gatherers…

> Try to find any major research showing either diet has a significant health impact on either 1) non-overweight individuals who remain non-overweight; or 2) has a health impact after controlling for changes in weight/obesity/body fat. It's virtually non-existent.

It's common sense.

And also easily provable at the limit: whose healthier at the end of 10 years, subject A consuming 2k calories of salad and lean meat per day, or subject B consuming 2k calories of vodka per day?

At least we know they'll both weigh the same, because thermodynamics, right?

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by solatic » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:36 AM UTC

Melatonic wrote: post #624

0xB31B1B wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eating food and drinking alcohol is a core part of most social activities. When you're losing weight, you can't really fuck up, you really need to stick to your diet. I found it difficult to maintain my diet in social settings (going to a friends party, eating at a restaurant with friends, going to a bar to celebrate something, etc) so I just stopped doing all of those things for 8 months. Like, if you're trying to q…

That makes sense but it may also be that you just need to make different social circles. There are tons of casual sports teams, for example, and those people are all bonding over playing volleyball casually (not at a high level or something) or things like hiking. Now your social activities are helping you lose weight

Nope, lots of casual sports teams will have people say, "hey we couldn't really socialize during the game, let's go grab a beer afterwards?". Hiking is similar, "hey let's take a break and eat some lunch."

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by Volundr » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:39 AM UTC

RHSeeger wrote: post #466

Volundr wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintaining a healthy weight is not that difficult FOR YOU. Many, many people struggle to control their weight. One day you might too. I never had an issue with my weight until I had a thyroid infection around 30. I now have "normal" thyroid levels, but ever since then maintaining my weight take vigilance and lots of discipline. It's possible, but definitely "difficult".

I had a similar issue. I was over the weight I wanted to be, but not amazingly so. Then I had a thyroid issue, and I lost a bunch of weight; down to my target weight. Then, once the thyroid issue was treated, my weight rebounded well past it's starting point. I'm still trying to lose the extra weight.

That sucks. Best of luck. FWIW I have managed to get my weight under control, so hopefully it's possible for you too. But yeah, if it's anything like it is for me, it really is a challenge, just know your not alone.

I frequently wish I had measure of what my levels were before my thyroid went weird. "Normal" is a pretty wide range, it'd be nice to know how my currently levels compare to my previous "normal" even if just to confirm that something physically changed.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by ClumsyPilot » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:39 AM UTC

grogenaut wrote: post #622

omniglottal wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP commented on a weight-loss scheme of eating every other day. Given the social attitudes around eating (which I suspect to be the #1 most common social activity), this alone has the obvious potential to eliminate ~%50 of the most likely socializing opportunities.

If you're not eating every other day you can still go to the eating place and sit with folks. Also you can just talk more since they have to eat and you don't. Sounds like MORE socializing.

This is funny, so the more you talk, the more you are socialising, and if you are listening, you are not socialising?

Also since taunting yourself with food is not a concern, you assume your willpower and concentration is perfect, you never need safety precautions!

You can go work on high voltage cables 80 meters in the air without rubber gloves or safety harness - since you are more agile without gloves, and you save time by not needing to move around the carabiner, you will be more productive!

Don't wear a seatbelt, a helmet, remove airbags, sell your protective gear! Don't buy insurance! Remove safety from your gun! Store your bleach, poisons and fruit juice in identical containers! Leave sharp object lying around on the floor! Don't make spare copies of house keys!

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by loeg » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:40 AM UTC

windpower wrote: post #526

0xB31B1B wrote: post #21

I’m currently taking one of these drugs and it has been no less than a miracle in my life. I became obese when I was around 5, topping out around a 34 BMI. When I was 20 I lost a substantial amount of weight the old fashioned way (diet and exercise), and within 8 months I was BMI 23. Losing weight was extremely challenging and socially isolating. 7 years later, I had a bad ankle injury and regained weight to about 29…

I'm also on one of these drugs (Tirzepatide) and have been for a few months. The first time I remember knowing I was fat was when a babysitter made fun of me for it at age 6. I've been fat ever since and I'm in my late 30s now. I've lost significant amounts of weight (60+ pounds) three times in my adult life, through simple calorie restriction (intermittent fasting, including before I'd ever heard the term). Every ti…

> I've heard people say that the solution is to eat (healthy food) when you're hungry, and stop when you're full. The thing is, I'm never full. I can eat until I physically can't eat anymore (not something I do regularly, of course), and as soon as my stomach has emptied a bit, I feel fairly hungry again. "Eat until you feel full" is literally a human experience I had never really had.

I have a similar experience.