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NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

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Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#231

Post by Manuel_D »

wolverine876 wrote: post #177
Manuel_D wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They work for buses because buses follow set routes. There aren't overhead lines running through every single street. By comparison, garbage trucks do have to patrol essentially every street. Putting overhead lines through every street may be more expensive than batteries.

What do you think of my last point (in the GP)?

It's largely irrelevant. Having walked around Manhattan and seeing people leaving trash out, garbage trucks are going to be overwhelmingly active on side streets and not the major thoroughfares. The potential charging time gained from overhead lines will be minimal. Furthermore, most garbage trucks have mechanisms to load and unload garbage which would prevent them from mounting trolley poles.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#232

Post by wolverine876 »

edgyquant wrote: post #202
wolverine876 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why default to privately owned? Public services can be cheaper, more reliable, and you have more control than if you pay someone else to maximize their profit. NYC government has tons of experience and expertise in managing something like this.

>Public services can be cheaper No they can be subsidized with tax money. That doesn’t mean cheaper

You pay for something; that's not a subsidy.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#234

Post by jrockway »

wolverine876 wrote: post #186
some_random wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Garbage is absolutely not as big of a problem as it is in NYC though. You don't get to blame the fact garbage collection is awful on entropy when other cities very visibly do not have the same issues.

Do you live there? It seems pretty effective IME.

HN's take on NYC is very confusing. Everyone has "obvious" answers to problems that residents don't even consider problematic, and oh by the way, they've never left their town of 600 people.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#235

Post by wolverine876 »

Manuel_D wrote: post #231
wolverine876 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think of my last point (in the GP)?

It's largely irrelevant. Having walked around Manhattan and seeing people leaving trash out, garbage trucks are going to be overwhelmingly active on side streets and not the major thoroughfares. The potential charging time gained from overhead lines will be minimal. Furthermore, most garbage trucks have mechanisms to load and unload garbage which would prevent them from mounting trolley poles.

Good point about the side streets, but you could still electrify where the trucks drive most often and not everything.

The trolley poles could be mounted to the cab, it would seem.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#236

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ilamont wrote: post #217
racnid wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of mine & industrial vehicles are electrified. In underground mining it's attractive because the vehicle is in a very confined space (easy to run cables to) and it's doubly attractive because of the emissions issue (venting underground). It can make sense for above ground too. But for aircraft and ships you're likely correct.

I was thinking more of the giant open-pit mining excavators and trucks. However, I see that people are attempting to bring EVs to this market: The mining industry is in a full swing transition towards a low environmental impact mode of operation, and its key players are working to phase out diesel vehicles, which are responsible for significant greenhouse gas emissions and generate high operating costs. Currently, th…

Trucking fuel into remote sites is tedious, expensive and risky.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#237

Post by PLenz »

dendrite9 wrote: post #135
ecshafer wrote: post #70

Battery operated garbage trucks don't sound like a great idea, at least for all day use. With the push for EV I am not sure why we aren't seeing a push for the installation of streetcar power lines, these already exist and are used for busses. If we have a garbage truck that has the battery capacity for say 30 minutes, then it could be on the power line for the majority of the time. This would limit battery waste as…

I remember looking into this a little bit and the conclusion seemed to be that for most garbage truck uses the range was not the limiting factor. Pickup time was more important, and batteries are attractive given that most garbage pickup is stop-pickup-start-drive a short distance then stop again. In Seattle I believe I saw the longest route was less than 70 miles but I can't find a source. There was a purchase of ba…

Manhattan used to have hundreds of miles of street level trolley - but mostly powered by underground center third rail because overhead wires just didn't work with the density of lines and equipment. When the system needed to be cleared after snowfalls they used horses and later ICE trucks to plow. See any book on the Third Avenue Railway system for details

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#238

Post by jefftk »

mabbo wrote: post #123
legitster wrote: post #11

> “ With current technology, full electrification isn’t possible now for some parts of our fleet, but we are monitoring closely and really hope it will be,” Gragnani said. We are really letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. At this moment in time, Plug-in hybrids are the superior technology for nearly every application. I don't understand why they get so overlooked by consumers and manufacturers alike.

Plugin hybrids have the worst of both options as well as the best. They have to carry with them an entire gas engine, plus large electric motors, plus a huge battery. That's a lot of mass. This makes them inefficient as gas vehicles, and less efficient as EVs. Take a look at the Toyota Prius Prime, considered a great PHEV. It's got almost the same gas milage in combined city/highway driving as my 2012 Honda Civic (ar…

> you'll be needing to stop to refill the gas tank every 90 minutes

This is just wrong. The Prius Prime has an 11.4 gal tank and is rated 53mpg on the highway [1]. If you drive 70mph you'll need to refill after 7+ hours of driving and 500+mi.

[1] https://www.toyota-slo.com/blog/the-new-2022-toyota-prius-pr...

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#239

Post by wolverine876 »

ectopod wrote: post #224
edgyquant wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Public services can be cheaper No they can be subsidized with tax money. That doesn’t mean cheaper

Public services can be as efficient as private services. And without the overhead of dividends they are cheaper.

I wouldn't take the extreme position either way. Public and private are different tools for different jobs.

Re: NYC officials say they can't find EV garbage trucks powerful enough to plow snow

#240

Post by nashashmi »

sfe22 wrote: post #44
nashashmi wrote: post #20

Small problems. They should have several battery rotation stations spread out everywhere. I wonder if their trucks can do 8 hours of driving without refueling?

If it were such an easy problem, why don't you fix it? Can become rich as well.

This is a timing and operations issue. In 17 years, better crafted solutions will appear. Any fix right now would only last five years.

The problem is more optimized for manufacturers.

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