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Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

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Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If $80 is enough to purchase, say, 2-3 years of extra warranty, then it's a fair amount.

That is a mostly reasonable comment but has one assumption and another important implication: 1) Assumption: Extended warranties are available for these appliances that would cover the expected usable lifetime of the dishwasher plus the extra purchase 2-3 year warranty. This assumption is incorrect. Lifespan for something like this would, formally, fall under the category of durable goods. In this case, the expected…

> 1) Assumption: Extended warranties are available for these appliances that would cover the expected usable lifetime of the dishwasher plus the extra purchase 2-3 year warranty.

No. My assumption was the manufacturer warranty plus the extended warranty should be close to the expected lifespan. I believe 10 years is a stretch for a $500 dishwasher, so 2 years manufacturer warranty + 3 years of extended warranty sounds fair.

> 2) Implication: The implication of your comment is that consumers should bear the cost of errors that are sufficient enough to warrant a class action lawsuit, and pay for such errors in the form of an extended warranty.

Not really. I meant that if $80 buys you your expected lifespan (we disagree on the duration but bear with me) then a $80 refund is fair within the scope of current consumer laws in the US. I'm not saying that it's the best outcome for the consumer.

What happens where I live (Australia) is much better. The manufacturer warranty means zilch, and anything you buy should work for a reasonable lifespan (statutory warranty). If your dishwasher with a 2 year manufacturer warranty breaks after 25 months you simply call the shop and claim your statutory warranty. The "reasonable lifespan" is debatable, but it is longer than the manufacturer warranty in most cases.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#382
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you healthy? Lets harvest your organs to save so many more people for the small cost of one life.

I am not, lets harvest someone elses organs to make me healthy.

I mean, I could be healthier and I'm a high income individual. Let's harvest the organs of someone else who's unproven to make me healthy.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pure capitalism", or "war" as Steve Jobs put it in one of his emails, is a race to the bottom in terms of company profits because of countless scenarios like this. I want employee X because he will bring $Y value to me, so I can technically pay anything below $Y for him. But then your company also has similar logic. If we simply aggressively compete then these cost of any employee, who has a skillset where supply Th…

It's not a race to the bottom. It's a race to the point where Supply&Demand curves intersect. P.S. if it was a race to the bottom, consider that only 1.5% of the labor force works at minimum wage.

In microeconomics, one of the consequences of the long-run equilibrium is that no company in the industry has any profit. Sure, it's just a theory that doesn't capture everything but it's often referenced for such cases.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you took it out of context the line before said: I don’t think we should change our hiring policy based on this. The line after said: let’s discuss before you make other offers.

I think the context does not support your response. Because while they may have stated that it shouldn’t change their hiring practices, the rest of the conversation fully indicates that it did or would in fact be a consideration in their future hiring practices. So what they stated as far as hiring practice policy does not match up to what they said their practices might be going forward. There is a mismatch here. I…

It was the final email from Brin that said that… so from the context that was the end of the discussion. Or did I miss something?

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At Pixar, he behaved like a feudal lord because he pretty much owned the place and they relied on his money to keep the lights on. How do you mean by "behaved like a feudal lord"? Admittedly not read up on Jobs (sacrilege in this venue, I know), so I'm struggling to understand why he who pays the piper calls the tune is somehow objectionable.

Being a jerk is always bad. The only difference is that people who aren't "paying the piper" don't get away with it for very long before someone throws them out. Just because you can get away with it doesn't mean it's ok.

I've never been a fan of Jobs or Jobs' Cultists for exactly that reason, but... there is room for jerks. If everyone got along, no progress would ever be made.

I forget the author, but someone famous once noted, "The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to him. Therefore, all progress is made by unreasonable men."

Like any quote, there's a hint of truth to it and also not applicable in ALL situations.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#387
post #98

I am always wondering how these recruiter knows that "He is absolutely one of the best in the world at Browser technology" and how to be in this level in any area of expertise.

I would look at what areas you're already above average on, pick the ones you enjoy working in, and then dig into them for a few years non-stop.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#388
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's awful that there is collusion between companies to prevent these workers from getting compensation based on actual market forces. If they care so much about poaching then they need compensation that strongly rewards tenure and pays enough that they won't be tempted to leave. I don't know if this behavior is illegal but I feel like it should be.

It is.

Is it actually illegal if nothing happens as a result? Or if the fine is less than the amount of money saved by doing it?

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#389
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can own something without pettiness and employing someone does not give you total control over that employee. In my mind, a feudal Lord is someone who wants everyone to know and acknowledge they are in charge and demands exacting obedience.

Still not quite making the link between "feudal lord" and "pettiness" (both seem equally subjective/vague). By "total control", do you mean well beyond the boundaries of labor law? In my mind, I'm admittedly inclined to interpret this color as a consequence of the music stopping at an unprofitable creative house with an internal culture of unabashed freedom on someone else's dime. Maybe I just need to read the books…

Here let me explain it with concrete examples. Let's say you're a smart engineer, you know how to write code and make things happen and you have pretty good idea of what users seem to want or need.

You have a boss and you have a meeting with your boss to make a decision about including a new feature you've coded up a prototype for, into a product that is going to be released in a year. You demo it, and it goes mostly OK but there are some hitches.

You boss has several ways of responding. One way could be to call you an idiot, a stupid idiot who's wasting everybody's time. The other way would be to provide a more polite way of saying that the feature might not be ready yet and could use some refinement.

Multiple employees of Jobs reported this sort of behavior (screaming, belitting, etc):

"""Jobs stormed into a meeting and started shouting that they were “fucking dickless assholes."""

""" He shouted, "You guys don't know what you're doing. I'm going to get someone else to do the ads because this is fucked up."""

"""A few weeks later he called Bob Belleville, one of the hardware designers on the Xerox Star team. "Everything you've ever done in your life is shit," Jobs said, "so why don't you come work for me?"""

"""When Steve had to make cutbacks at Pixar, he fired people and didn't give any severance pay."""

"""“How old were you when you lost your virginity?" he asked. The candidate looked baffled. “What did you say?” “Are you a virgin?” Jobs asked. The candidate sat there flustered, so Jobs changed the subject. “How many times have you taken LSD?” Hertzfeld recalled, “The poor guy was turning varying shades of red, so I tried to change the subject and asked a straightforward technical question.”""

"""To address the problem, Jobs gathered the MobileMe team in Apple's auditorium and asked: "Can anyone tell me what MobileMe is supposed to do?" When the team gave their answers, Jobs replied, "Then why the fuck doesn't it do that?"

Jobs then fired the MobileMe boss on the spot and replaced him with Eddie Cue."""

I think Jony Ive pinpointed it: """I once asked him why he gets so mad about stuff. He said, "But I don't stay mad." He has this very childish ability to get really worked up about something, and it doesn't stay with him at all. But, there are other times, I think honestly, when he's very frustrated, and his way to achieve catharsis is to hurt somebody. And I think he feels he has a liberty and license to do that. The normal rules of social engagement, he feels, don't apply to him. Because of how very sensitive he is, he knows exactly how to efficiently and effectively hurt someone. And he does do that."""

The only question is: if Jobs hadn't been an asshole, would the computing world have come so far so fast, and does that justify his behavior?

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bully? It's business. If he can get Google to not hire people just by being tough on the phone that's a win. Costs almost nothing. My father once worked at an electronics contracting firm. One of his co-workers who was in charge of purchasing parts was masterful while on the phone with suppliers. He drove a very hard bargain and often shouted and swore at suppliers to extract the best prices. Bullying or business?

I thought you were supposed to buy them good bourbon and take them golfing/to the strip club, not yell at them.

Steaks and strippers. A relative of mine asks if there's a Ruth's Chris in the area and if there isn't then he is not interested.
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