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Men Without Work (2016)

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Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#341

Post by WhiteBlueSkies »

vinyl7 wrote: post #282
epups wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but I think your narrative is misguided. When you were 20,which was 30 years ago, it might have been less likely that you would get a stranger to change your tire. But it was much more likely you, rather than a woman, would find employment and especially reach a position of power. Which one do you think is more important for a satisfying life? The fact that we are working towards a more equal society is no…

The problem is with basic male-female relationship dynamics within the concept of marriage/family. Women are attracted to wealth and status, men are attracted to appearances. Now that women can build a career equal to men, not only do they find those men unattractive...they really have no need for a man, aside from procreation. With how expensive everything is getting, and requiring both couples to work full time car…

>The problem is with basic male-female relationship dynamics within the concept of marriage/family. Women are attracted to wealth and status, men are attracted to appearances.

No, this is not true. Women are attracted to apparences now more than ever. Good looks is extremely important.

>Being a career slave for nothing is probably a big part of the suicide rate among men

Why for nothing, at least we get paid to work.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#342

Post by WhiteBlueSkies »

whatshisface wrote: post #192
JKCalhoun wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I seriously felt like "society had no interest in me". I'm pretty sure society is not obligated to have an interest in you (I'm not trying to put words in your mouth however). I think you become truly actualized only when you decide what it is you want, what you imagine for yourself. If what you want is in conflict with what society wants of you, you have to decide then whether it is important enough to you to take…

There's a basic human need to be valued by others and to be part of a community, and the system we have now grades people according to traits that are mainly genetic and casts them aside if they aren't seen as desirable enough. As for what the cut is, well, it's many-faceted, but the waterline is rising and as you age all of your desirable traits are fading. If you have real personal relationships (either career or f…

You know it's always the intellectuals who fret so much about life. I've seen construction workers succesfully dating and being happy and enjoying life. Maybe we overthink things too much. We'll be fine.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#343

Post by lazide »

dudul wrote: post #337
lazide wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is society trying to protect and sustain itself. And frankly, what other options are there?

If things are so dire, why aren't women drafted too? Why is anyone allowed to leave the country?

Because they need physically strong folks able to fight in subzero temperatures while carrying heavy equipment, willing to run into enemy fire to save their friends or family despite extreme danger to themselves, with familiarity and ability to live in harsh outdoor conditions (or even enjoy it), and with a willingness to bayonet, shoot, or explode a stranger to death because of the uniform they are wearing (with a minimum amount of duress).

They also need folks willing to drive tanks into battle (while going by burning hulks of tanks just like theirs on the side of the road), and handle 100lb shells and fire artillery while being shot at by other artillery, and many other things.

They also need people who can handle being yelled at, mentally and physically abused (by modern standards), and given barely the minimum things necessary to survive - sometimes not even that - and still function enough to survive and even do what they are ordered to do, even if it puts them in harms way. Even if it means doing things no one wants to talk about, or even horrible things.

Statistically, that means men, especially young men.

They did (and probably still do) accept women volunteers. They are out there, but there is not a lot. I can't say I blame them. Some of the videos I've seen, some are holding their own. I definitely respect them for that, they are fighting for what is theirs. It's not a place good for anyone. It is a place some can survive better than others.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#344

Post by mint2 »

pnf wrote: post #319
UncleOxidant wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some men change their own tires. Some men call AAA when they get a flat. Some women change their own tires. Some women call AAA when they get a flat. All of these people are real.

Yes, they are all real people but masculinity means changing your own tires unless old or otherwise enfeebled. Otherwise being a man or a woman means nothing but chromosome delivery mechanisms.

Want the brain surgeon operating on your loved one with his hands later in the day to change his own tire in the snow on the way to the hospital or do you want him to call aaa? Btw the lug nuts are stuck and will need substantial persuading. And it’s on the side of a busy road.

Seems extreme to think that guy should change his own tire.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#345

Post by [deleted] »

lordfrito wrote: post #339
crossroadsguy wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it rather prudent to also wonder whether such a marriage is worth preserving which requires one to walk on such eggshells? I mean beyond the usual “but I love my… adjustments.. you know you know.. ” trope.

You're right of course. Unfortunately many of us us learn far too late that their marriage wasn't worth preserving in the first place.

[deleted]

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#346

Post by pnf »

jolmg wrote: post #334
pnf wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone with such low karma you sure are the expert on all things HN. In my humble opinion, only a mindless NPC would think my comparing the erroneous platitudes and baseless claims of the above to an LLM was not appropriate to the spirit of HN. Those guidelines, btw, absolute shit, I'm sorry to say. They degrade the quality of conversation around here by devaluing passionate debate. They explicitly eschew many r…

> For someone with such low karma [...] You have 129. What are you doing criticizing the karma of others? Karma doesn't matter, they're still right: "Please don't post shallow dismissals" > Those guidelines, btw, absolute shit, I'm sorry to say. They degrade the quality of conversation around here by devaluing passionate debate. No, shallow dismissals like what you did are what devalue debate.

The difference is that I'm not claiming to speak for HN and censor voices I don't agree with. That's your job, apparently. In any case, glib dismissals of shallow, condescending arguments are the appropriate response. In point of fact, my response wasn't shallow at all, if you think about it. There's a lot to unpack in considering whether someone's opinions are indistinguishable from something chatGPT might output. Either way, such replies, admittedly short and pithy, show others that it's OK to treat those types of argument with disdain and not to waste one's time taking them seriously. In case you didn't notice before you leapt to the rescue, the tone of the parent post was extremely patronizing. If you can't see that it says something about you, not me. So, in this world of "valuable" debate which you advocate, uncivil condescension and mild corrective scolding are A-OK, but singling such things out for ridicule so others aren't fooled by them is not. I see. You're clearly on the side of valuable, deep debate.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#347

Post by WhiteBlueSkies »

lordfrito wrote: post #215

My 2c. Society doesn't care about young men. They're pretty much left to fend for themselves. Hopefully they have a good family structure, and a few good male friends. Without that they're toally adrift. I learned this lesson when I got a flat tire driving across two states when I was 20. No one is willing to help. I guarantee a 20 yo woman would have no problem flagging down help, heck people would stop to help with…

>As a middle aged man strangers I meet expect the worst from me, why should I try?

Is there something in your appearance which intimidates people?

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#348

Post by 20after4 »

lazide wrote: post #237
vagrantJin wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most societies throughout history have had the same intuition about young men. Quite recently the Ukraine was drafting young men. If they decided to check out en-masse, there would be no country called Ukraine anymore. Society is a fragile thing.

Looking at the rawest biological elements - a society without women of child bearing age having kids, won’t be a society very long (a few decades, usually). A society without someone fighting and dying to defend it, can go until someone tries to conquer it - then it can be dead almost instantly without enough people willing to fight, kill, and die defending it. Both of those are real problems. Fighting doesn’t have t…

Without people fighting and dying, there would be no conquest.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#349

Post by AnimalMuppet »

20after4 wrote: post #348
lazide wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the rawest biological elements - a society without women of child bearing age having kids, won’t be a society very long (a few decades, usually). A society without someone fighting and dying to defend it, can go until someone tries to conquer it - then it can be dead almost instantly without enough people willing to fight, kill, and die defending it. Both of those are real problems. Fighting doesn’t have t…

Without people fighting and dying, there would be no conquest.

True. But those who won't fight and die in order to conquer can still be conquered by someone willing to fight and die to do so.

Attacking another country is almost always evil. Defending your own is essential, at least until we get a world without evil people.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#350

Post by dragonwriter »

pnf wrote: post #319
UncleOxidant wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some men change their own tires. Some men call AAA when they get a flat. Some women change their own tires. Some women call AAA when they get a flat. All of these people are real.

Yes, they are all real people but masculinity means changing your own tires unless old or otherwise enfeebled. Otherwise being a man or a woman means nothing but chromosome delivery mechanisms.

> masculinity means changing your own tires

No, it doesn’t.

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