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In 2022, Web3 went just great

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161–170 of 205 posts

Re: In 2022, Web3 went just great

#161
post #52

The problem I have with articles like these is that my definition of Web3 is quite a bit different. I tend to lump "crypto" more with NFTs, wild speculation, scams, heavily VC backed "decentralized" tokens, etc. But on the other hand, I want social networks not owned by businesses, I want other major utilities also not owned by major companies (I think gmail is used for 8bn addresses). I think the fediverse is nice s…

Web3 is an attempt to paint scammy technologies (crypto assets) as something useful (decentralized tech).

The truth is: you don't need crypto stuff to have a decentralized internet, as ActivityPub is handsomely showing and, let's be real here, the web itself is showing for the last decades.

I'm still to see a Web3 business that doesn't smell, looks, and behaves like it's a grift.

Re: In 2022, Web3 went just great

#162
post #74

I'm kinda happy with the way things turned out. For a moment, my understanding of reality was upside down with how many mediocre and clearly pointless projects were generating so much money. With every crypto hype cycle, I actually go through the motions and create a smart contract project and become completely disillusioned with the hype. I thought ERC20 tokens were bullshit when I realized it's just updating keys i…

> I think web3/crypto will have mass adoption, but when it does, it will be much more boring and seamless with what we have today, with large companies managing blockchains and governments issuing their own coins. What point is there in the blockchain here? Why would a company or government need or want the indirection and overhead of blockchain/cryptocurrency instead of a normal database and traditional currency?

There is also an interesting middle ground between a centralized database and a fully distributer blockchain: a transparency log.

You can have a central authority operate on a ledger as they please, but provide verifiable proof that they are not rigging the books behind your back and rewriting history

Re: In 2022, Web3 went just great

#163

"The collector who dropped $2.9 million on an NFT of Jack Dorsey’s first ever tweet found himself in a bind in April, when he tried to resell the NFT and wound up with a top bid of… $280." Hahaha, wow. You couldn't even take a 2.899 million dollar write off loss on your taxes too! Just straight vaporizing nearly 3 million bucks.

I always figured buying that NFT was sort of a way to just donate to one of Jack's charities. I hope the buyer wasn't trying to make a long term investment with it.

Re: In 2022, Web3 went just great

#164
post #122

I would like to remind people, yet again, that things like "fuckedcompany.com" existed [0] and there was also a lot of hate for dot-com era startups during the late 1990s to 2000s. From the article: """ $4.27 billion was stolen in various hacks and scams this year alone, although that is a very conservative estimate ... """ One source claims $5 trillion lost during the dot-com crash as of 2002 [1]. I believe being cr…

If your point is that oft-cited-never-correct "this is early days / this is like the early dot com era" notion - I want to dispel that myth for you. There has been no real value, product, or worth created here. With the rise of public internet spaces in the 1990s, online shopping, web search, and more - the value was immediate and apparent. Of course there were bad ideas, scams, etc, but the major difference between…

People forget how hyped the internet was circa 1996-2000. During the early days, one of the most popular sites was a web cam pointed at a coffee mug [0] and a webcam pointed at a "lifecaster" showing her everyday life [1]. Email was confusing and misunderstood [2].

Startups were laughed at when they said you would buy pet food online [3] or pay your parking tickets online [4]. Both are so commonplace now as to barely be worth mentioning.

You absolutely could be right. Maybe cryptocurrency and the surrounding technology is a fad or hype without any substance but you're making an assumption that the rollout of cryptocurrency adoption should follow the same schedule as dot.com startups. For a point of reference, Linux was created circa 1991 [5] with the GNU project started in 1983, giving about a decade or two, depending on where you start, from "widespread" Linux/FOSS adoption.

You're stating that "there has been no real value, produce, or worth created here" bluntly without really backing it up. There are plenty of products and use cases, just none that you would consider valid. People use cryptocurrency to purchase goods and services, just not the ones you might find valid. People use cryptocurrency to support organizations they favor, just not organizations you might favor. People are using cryptocurrency to explore different social media models, just not models you would find valid.

My plea is in line with the HN terms of service. Please have curious conversation. Molly White has valid things to say and, as far as I can tell, does research the claims she makes. I don't like the tenor so I feel like I need to push back here and elsewhere to put things in context.

Your casual, snarky, dismissiveness doesn't add a lot to the conversation. Would it add anything to the conversation if I said "XML is a poorly designed LaTeX, improperly implemented"? Or "Javascript is a poor attempt at a Lisp implementation"? "Twitter is public text messaging, just done poorly"? The reductions gloss over the complexities of the ecosystem and utility. It should be a red flag that there may be something you don't understand if you're so quick to cite idiocy.

To your points:

Decentralization means different things to different people. In the context of Bitcoin, or many other cryptocurrencies, it means that anyone can participate given the resources, without the need to apply for credentials. Miners can join and participate in the network by standing up hardware. Contrast this with starting a business, pushing an app on the apple store, publishing a game on steam, etc. Note that this is how the internet was also designed. Anyone wanting to participate in the network ostensibly could.

I think to dismiss Bitcoin as an "inefficient linked list, poorly distributed" is to dismiss a lot of good ideas and research ideas. Bitcoin may have some flaws, maybe critically so, but it sits at the middle of theoretical computer science, economics and finance in a novel way that responds to a lot of shortcomings of attempts before it.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_Room_coffee_pot

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Ringley

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95-yZ-31j9A

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pets.com#Legacy

[4] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0256408/?ref_=ttls_li_tt

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux#History

Re: In 2022, Web3 went just great

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think web3/crypto will have mass adoption, but when it does, it will be much more boring and seamless with what we have today, with large companies managing blockchains and governments issuing their own coins. What point is there in the blockchain here? Why would a company or government need or want the indirection and overhead of blockchain/cryptocurrency instead of a normal database and traditional currency?

There is also an interesting middle ground between a centralized database and a fully distributer blockchain: a transparency log. You can have a central authority operate on a ledger as they please, but provide verifiable proof that they are not rigging the books behind your back and rewriting history

This is an interesting concept. But I'm not sure why a company would want to do this if they didn't have to. Currently even publicly traded companies don't have to completely open their books to an auditor unless they get into trouble, right? Even then is it public? But for this to be a public benefit, wouldn't it have to be mandated? A government requirement to have a cryptographic chain of evidence for your books seems like the opposite of the crypto ethos.

Re: In 2022, Web3 went just great

#166

I would feel bad for people who lost money in crypto if every time I tried to warn them during the bubble they wouldn't have said 'have fun staying poor' and called me ignorant. It is tough to remain motivated to try and convince people that they are making bad decision when they actively berate you. It feels like telling someone about to jump into the shallow end of a swimming pool from a balcony that they are going…

>I would feel bad for people who lost money in crypto if every time I tried to warn them during the bubble they wouldn't have said 'have fun staying poor' Not everyone that lost money did this to you though, seems unfair to judge most people who are just trying to get by because of a few assholes on the internet

I have been told “have fun staying poor” on HN.

Re: In 2022, Web3 went just great

#167

I would feel bad for people who lost money in crypto if every time I tried to warn them during the bubble they wouldn't have said 'have fun staying poor' and called me ignorant. It is tough to remain motivated to try and convince people that they are making bad decision when they actively berate you. It feels like telling someone about to jump into the shallow end of a swimming pool from a balcony that they are going…

I'd ask them "you rich yet" at this point.

“Have fun becoming poor!”

Re: In 2022, Web3 went just great

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only 7%? At the height of the bubble, there were a number of major crypto schemes offering interest rates of 20% or more. Sometimes even much more; some of the shadier "investments" offered >100% APY. Unsurprisingly, most of those schemes have since collapsed.

It’s easy to give 100% APR in a token you’ve created, it’s very hard to keep the market value increasing at a similar rate to offset coin price dropping. Initial hype will support you for a few months but it’s all tears in the end :) I’m still sort of sad the focus hasn’t been on decent remittance systems, the true useful tool of crypto IMO.

Or even simpler: if you put barriers in the way of users cashing out their "earnings", you can keep a naked pyramid scheme running for quite a while. Some schemes have done this by making it difficult for users to cash out their earnings, e.g. by enforcing a lockup period, or requiring users to sell their tokens to another new investor, or even by simply declaring that withdrawals are a feature "under development".

One notable example of such a scheme was OneCoin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OneCoin), which wasn't even based on a blockchain.

Re: In 2022, Web3 went just great

#169
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your point is that oft-cited-never-correct "this is early days / this is like the early dot com era" notion - I want to dispel that myth for you. There has been no real value, product, or worth created here. With the rise of public internet spaces in the 1990s, online shopping, web search, and more - the value was immediate and apparent. Of course there were bad ideas, scams, etc, but the major difference between…

People forget how hyped the internet was circa 1996-2000. During the early days, one of the most popular sites was a web cam pointed at a coffee mug [0] and a webcam pointed at a "lifecaster" showing her everyday life [1]. Email was confusing and misunderstood [2]. Startups were laughed at when they said you would buy pet food online [3] or pay your parking tickets online [4]. Both are so commonplace now as to barely…

nah

Re: In 2022, Web3 went just great

#170
post #74

I'm kinda happy with the way things turned out. For a moment, my understanding of reality was upside down with how many mediocre and clearly pointless projects were generating so much money. With every crypto hype cycle, I actually go through the motions and create a smart contract project and become completely disillusioned with the hype. I thought ERC20 tokens were bullshit when I realized it's just updating keys i…

>There are some NFTs by amazing artists which no one cares about. The ones with the most popularity are modern-day clip art pieces, with copy-paste scripts and marketing strategies.

I've only witnessed almost every amazing digital artist on my twitter feed quickly devolve into an obnoxious NFT shill and drastically reduce the quality of their practice to maximize their output.

I'm glad they are finding ways to some meager financial gains but the ideological mystique around their practice was shattered in the process

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