This would prevent votes from being lost and would make the ability to compromise and "secure" these votes more important then populist behavior.
The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy
21–30 of 59 posts
Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy
#22> When public firework displays take positions on controversial issues, they provoke partisan reactions, poisoning debate further and turning aggrieved groups away from public spaces. Is support for Ukraine a controversial issue in the UK? In the US, support for Ukraine is pretty widespread.
Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy
#23The sad part of all of this is that the folks pushing the polarization in the U.S., the Trumpy right, and the progressive left, represent an extreme minority of the population. If either of these two groups had an any level of self awareness, they'd realize that no one wants them around.
Political parties have no external goals; they are self-interested and use the people within them to achieve that goal by offering carrots (which result in fulfilling the external values of normal people) or sticks (which punish defection or opposing party members).
Progressivism and conservativism are not opposed on a single axis. Political parties lay claim to and label particular issues which benefits both major U.S. parties in the long run by giving them each a grab bag of issues for a particular set of voters. This is why, for example, guns and wombs have opposite signs in the personal-freedom axis for both parties. As long as the shared belief exists that an issue "belongs" to "one side" it remains useful as a political tool but nearly worthless as a policy tool for normal people.
Finally, it is not the extremes leading this charge. The core DNC and RNC execute this strategy because they are locked in a struggle for survival. The DNC and RNC have successfully used the threat of the least-aligned party to trap moderate and progressive voters within the party structures. Non-partisan primaries and ranked-choice/runoff voting are starting to show moderate success (AK and NH) at changing the game theory to favor politicians who compromise on multivariate issues versus enforcing party platforms.
Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy
#24> When public firework displays take positions on controversial issues, they provoke partisan reactions, poisoning debate further and turning aggrieved groups away from public spaces. Is support for Ukraine a controversial issue in the UK? In the US, support for Ukraine is pretty widespread.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/public-continues-support-britain...
Personally I wouldn't say support for Ukraine is controversial here in the UK.
Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the US had an equivalent of lib dems and/or proportional representation and/or ranked choice, would it still be so polarised? Sure, a 2-party state is preferable to a 1-party state, but that's a pretty low bar. Lagniappe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Warren#Election
> If the US had an equivalent of lib dems and/or proportional representation and/or ranked choice, would it still be so polarised I don't think this would be a panacea, but it would definitely help things quite a bit. The largest voting block in the U.S. isn't Democrats or Republicans, but voters that have chosen not to be affiliated with either party.
Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, because they are liberal only by name not concept. Liberalism is based on tolerance and civil society as the space of freedom.
> Yes, because they are liberal only by name not concept. Liberalism is based on tolerance and civil society as the space of freedom. Exactly. We tend to conflate "left" with "liberalism" because historically in the West these two things have gone together. However, they don't have to, and in recent years they have decoupled. The left (at least in the U.S.) has became increasingly illiberal to the point where they no…
Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy
#27I'm not against using precise words when they are helpful. But sometimes I see people using complex language to obfuscate the message instead of clarifying it, and as far as I can tell that's what is happening here.
When the meaning of an essay is confused and unclear, either a) I'm just not smart enough to understand it or b) the author is a poor communicator. B is much, much more common.
Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy
#28As a member of one of the minorities whose rights campaigns Prosser cites as ruining his footie, I'll say, apropos nothing, that it's much easier to talk about these issues with detached neutrality when you & your friends are not subject to monotonically increasing levels of stochastic domestic terrorism.
Sounds like you need to get new friends. We are all dealing with crap, we are all at the bottom of the pile getting the dregs from trickle down economic theory. It's not about one tiny fringe group, when we fight only for ever more specific fringe groups we ignore the injustice we are all subjected to.
It's also true that injustice and danger is not evenly distributed, and it's shitty and dismissive to pretend that it is. Far right extremist violence against queer people is absolutely a thing and it has been increasing for several years now, for example. How many of your friends have been killed violently by extremists in the last two years? If it's zero you maybe should just stfu about the injustice we're all subject to, in this context.
Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
since every issue apparently has two quite defined and non-overlapping 'sides', what is a moderate? someone who chooses Ala-carte?
A moderate has more to do with a mindset and epistemological stance than it does with specific views. A moderate, regardless of where they stand on a particular issue, will ask themselves "What if I'm wrong?", or "Wow this issue is very complicated, I'm not 100% certain on the answer". Extremists, by contrast, tend to be absolutely certain of whatever opinion they happen to hold at the moment and nothing can shake th…
You're also trying to frame it so that anyone who does consistently choose a side is inherently an extremist, and that these two extremes are "liberal" and "conservative."
The idea that political extremes are more similar to each other than to a moderate position is called horseshoe theory, and it has very little support among political scientists. It doesn't even apply in this case because, again, the two "sides" in american politics aren't even opposite extremes. In most peer countries the democrats would be solidly center-right and the republicans are off to their right. On the far left is a gaping hole where communists, anarcho-syndicalists, revolutionary socialists etc would be.
In practice people who call themselves moderate are usually consistently aligned with one of the two major parties, they just don't want to incur the social costs of that alignment in at least one context. Or and relatedly, they want to present themselves as being morally and intellectually superior to both, too "enlightened" to be duped into taking sides like inferior thinkers.
There's nothing wrong with understanding yourself and your world well enough to pick a side on an issue, or find allies for it. Again the self-questioning you describe isn't unique to centrists nor the reason for their centrism.
My positions are extreme, as are those of many of my friends and associates. We doubt too. Yet we find that we must act anyway, and risk being wrong or foolish.
Re: The politicization of society is damaging liberal democracy
#30A lot of well meaning people are seriously damaging the country by injecting politics into spheres that the public broadly needs to perceive as “neutral” such as law and medicine. This is usually accompanied by efforts to reframe contentious policy debates as “non-political.” Which of course makes no sense because lots of things that aren’t political in the abstract quickly become political when it comes to people ad…
It doesn't appear that this is a fixable problem now.