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Men Without Work (2016)

time.com

81–90 of 471 posts

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#81
Brute force is no longer useful to our economy.

We continue to replace male labor with machines.

The last vestige is the trades, mostly in the construction industry.

It's only a matter of time until the technology industry gets around to disrupting male labor out of the trades.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you need to apologize and explain why you care about issues that might affect men is telling in and of itself. The American Zeitgeist around gender issues is distorted to dehumanize men and alienate anyone who even dares to recognize this fact. I'm a pretty hardcore liberal and I I'm totally astonished on a daily basis at the hate in vitriol directed at men that go without comment, let alone castigation…

> The American Zeitgeist around gender issues is distorted to dehumanize men and alienate anyone who even dares to recognize this fact. I must be living under a rock then — this Zeitgeist you talk of is alien to me. I am a male who does not feel in any way dehumanized, nor have any of my male friends expressed as much.

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Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#83

I think "Men Without Work" is a euphemism. The problem is: - Men without Skills in-demand-- skills which are at least somewhat fulfilling & interesting to those men. Solution: Research labor data for careers in high demand, then cross reference those careers with skills a person is interested in. Then identify resources & a roadmap for learning those skills. And sit down, and put the time in to learn & apply those sk…

many many people simply won't work if they don't have to. If they're able to live off parents or significant others and can get enough entertainment/stimulation online to keep them satisfied then that's all they're going to do.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#84
post #8

I'm very far from a red-pilled anti-feminist but I do think this is a hugely overlooked problem. Perhaps too much of an aside but I was lucky enough to be able to take an extended parental leave when my child was born, being a "stay at home dad" for the best part of a year. It was incredibly hard work, incredibly rewarding but also a real eye opener at how society still doesn't know what to do with a full-time parent…

We didn't let Jordan Petersons (not that he is some sort of ideal) brand of masculinity out and now we are stuck with the Andrew Tate style. Masculinity is something that needs to be cultivated, trying to stamp it out just results in weeds.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#85
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember during most interactions with healthcare providers during my wife and I's pregnancies, hardly anyone ever talked to me, sometimes never even looking at me. I get it, I'm not the one carrying a baby to term, but I would have thought the fact that I was showing up to all these appointments, staying by my wife's side, taking part in decisions, and supporting her and the baby through the whole thing would have…

i know exactly what you mean. I remember an early doc appointment with my wife she was pregnant with our first child, the doctor was going over things with my wife like what she should be doing and what she should not be doing etc. I asked the doctor what i should be doing and what i should look out for, she just glared at me and said "you've done enough." implying i was only there to get my wife pregnant. That was 1…

I cannot relate to yours or garettmd’s experience, on both east or west coast of USA. There was lots of information for me (the dad) by the OB, and during the class about birthing we took for our first. This was in last 5 years.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#86
post #8

I'm very far from a red-pilled anti-feminist but I do think this is a hugely overlooked problem. Perhaps too much of an aside but I was lucky enough to be able to take an extended parental leave when my child was born, being a "stay at home dad" for the best part of a year. It was incredibly hard work, incredibly rewarding but also a real eye opener at how society still doesn't know what to do with a full-time parent…

I recently learned about the concept of the "Lead Dad" which is when the father is the chief caregiver. There are a handful of groups that try to connect these fathers (1).

A big part of their emerging agenda is to get corporations and schools to recognize that the father is actually the point of contact and to destigmatize the dad who pauses or leaves his career to raise the kids.

1. https://thecompanyofdads.com

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#87

I think "Men Without Work" is a euphemism. The problem is: - Men without Skills in-demand-- skills which are at least somewhat fulfilling & interesting to those men. Solution: Research labor data for careers in high demand, then cross reference those careers with skills a person is interested in. Then identify resources & a roadmap for learning those skills. And sit down, and put the time in to learn & apply those sk…

It's one thing to say that about very young men, and quite another who followed society's and especially goverment's pushing and funding of higher and higher education. Only later do they find out that their crazy study hours were largely wasted, and they'd have done much better in a trade. They were led astray.

It would be better for people to be integrated into the workforce _during_ their education, to ensure that it stays relevant and to keep the movtivation. This idea of education as a kind of social enlightenment is an elite luxury, and makes people more miserable and regretful and unemployable.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#88
post #55
post #8

I'm very far from a red-pilled anti-feminist but I do think this is a hugely overlooked problem. Perhaps too much of an aside but I was lucky enough to be able to take an extended parental leave when my child was born, being a "stay at home dad" for the best part of a year. It was incredibly hard work, incredibly rewarding but also a real eye opener at how society still doesn't know what to do with a full-time parent…

a lot of this, at least in the united states, is due to a deep-seated dichotomy of heteronormative gender roles in suburban life. new mums groups have learned to be welcoming, but not inclusive to newcomers and that may largely be due to puritanical influences present in a lot of the cultures that oversee these groups. one could go so far as to say such patronisation and strict gender conformity serve to ostracize an…

I used to tell kids to go to college, and was unhappy if they did not go. Now I tell them they need a career. You need a skill people will pay for, or your life will suck. I'm in IT and most of skills come from a 2 year local degree, so it's college, but. It was very skills based. It was a career. Tell kids to get a career.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#89
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unspecified in all of this is: Society at large needs less labor to function. What happens when all of the production is automated to the point we don't NEED 'Men to work'? What do we do with them? What mischief do they get into when they have idle hands?

I mostly agree. I feel like some people will gravitate back towards self sufficient activities. There are a lot of people on this site doing stuff like building their own furniture, gardening, etc. Of course I do think there will be a subset that use their time for more destructive things, as happens even now.

You'd think so, but an array of regulations makes that increasingly difficult. Fixing your own house or car can put you in legal hot water.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#90
post #59
post #8

I'm very far from a red-pilled anti-feminist but I do think this is a hugely overlooked problem. Perhaps too much of an aside but I was lucky enough to be able to take an extended parental leave when my child was born, being a "stay at home dad" for the best part of a year. It was incredibly hard work, incredibly rewarding but also a real eye opener at how society still doesn't know what to do with a full-time parent…

Two big things stick out in all of this to me... 1) There's the idea that one parent does not work for a company. This is hard for a lot of men and women to handle. A lot is put into the idea that adults need to be part of the economic productivity cycle or you're failing. Stay at home dad's are looked down on by others a lot due to this. It happens to many stay at home mom's, too. Think about it. If both parents wor…

Yes and no, I think. I agree in abstract, because I am sure it is a factor, but I will give my personal anecdata. Covid was a stroke of good luck for me, because I effectively was able to be a father and work from home at the same time ( 1st year kid - and she slept on a tight schedule ). And I will admit it was incredibly fulfilling ( albeit tiring ).

We are a dual income household and above average in terms of income for our state and I honestly do not feel comfortable enough to let her stay home full time ( which is part of the reason for my goals for 2023 are more aggressive in terms of learning and moving my skill set to the next level ). Even by myself, we are above average and I still think it is not enough to keep the current level of comforts ( and I have no idea how other people manage ).

Again, I think yes and no. Are there MMA fighters? Yeah, and some good ones too, but as my cousin recently said: "Do I want my daughter to be a plumber? No."

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