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Private and Public Mastodon

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41–50 of 191 posts

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#41

> People should be able to converse without their every word landing on a permanent global un-erasable indexed public record. Call me crazy. Sure, and they should use Signal instead of publishing their conversations and then getting mad when they turn out to be publicly available.

This is my position too. What I'm looking for in a twitter alternative is something public that I can post to the entire world, and search. If I want to post to my friends I already use Signal and vastly prefer that to something like Mastodon.

The add the extra complexity of follower only things and instances and I just don't understand who this service is aim at other than the people who created it. Hence, to me, it is and will always be some niche thing (that isn't terribly interesting to me).

All that said I still read these threads because there needs to be a good twitter alternative.

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#42
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, look at the facts: - permanently archiving posts they know people don’t want them to - gave early access to known trolls - is now publicly crowing about how there’s nothing you can do about it - on a throwaway, because like most bullies they’re cowards Personally, I’m left wondering if there needs to be an organized crime investigation into KF, for organized harassment campaigns which violate local stalking o…

If you don't want your stuff permanently archived then don't post it on public websites. It's sad that people don't give a shit about their privacy and overshare everything these days.

No — I’m tired of saying all of society needs to walk on eggshells due to anti-social people like OP.

If you go around a bar with a tape recorder and directional microphone capturing conversations from unsuspecting people and then use those private moments to launch protracted harassment campaigns, you’re an asshole.

No matter how much you say “they didn’t have an expectation of privacy!”

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#43
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe followers-only posts are sent to all servers with at least one follower.

That is given, how else could it work? This is pub/sub, it's not pull based, so every time you release something it is pushed to the subscribers, your followers servers. I would like to have a bit of pull based things as well, but ActivityPub is not built for it. Even though it's pushed to a server, doesn't mean it goes to everyone in that server.

[deleted]

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#44
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is given, how else could it work? This is pub/sub, it's not pull based, so every time you release something it is pushed to the subscribers, your followers servers. I would like to have a bit of pull based things as well, but ActivityPub is not built for it. Even though it's pushed to a server, doesn't mean it goes to everyone in that server.

Even though it's pushed to a server, doesn't mean it goes to everyone in that server. Right, the issue being raised is that there's nothing preventing it from going to everyone on the server except the server being nice about it.

How is this different from let's say email?

It's in the specs what servers should do if it receives a message. If someone sends a message addressed to just these people the server then delivers it to just these people?

Of course if you send something from foo@gmail.com to bar@yahoo.com the server at yahoo.com decides who gets it, hopefully just bar.

In fact email analogy in my mind is most apt and easiest to explain, including the fact that it's not E2E encrypted. It's totally up to servers who gets your messages when you send them.

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#45
It's also unethical to make promises to users, like privacy for posts published to a semipublic social network, that software can't possibly keep.

It's going to be interesting watching the norms of the fediverse collide with the expectations of ordinary software users. Mastodon and ActivityPub have a lot of promise as an alternative to centralized social networks, and there are good reasons to use them even if you don't buy into the ethos of the fediverse. If Mastodon is going anywhere, those users will soon drastically outnumber the keepers of the fediverse norms.

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#46
post #29

Wait until you hear about how followers only posts actually work. An analogy would be Microsoft can't figure out how to get email addressing to work in Outlook, so they send every email to every server, and then Exchange does some magic filtering and tells Outlook which of the emails in your inbox should be visible. Then somebody writes an alternative SMTP server that allows viewing of these hidden messages, and Micr…

Hmm, to my knowledge, followers only posts are ActivityPub feature, where you just shovel the message to inboxes of just followers. It is not sending it to all servers? It's also possible to send messages to part of the followers as well, some instances like qoto.org support circles. You make circles from your followers and post to just them. I wouldn't call these privacy features, but ability for sender to choose wh…

It starts getting weird when you reply to those posts.

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#47
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want your stuff permanently archived then don't post it on public websites. It's sad that people don't give a shit about their privacy and overshare everything these days.

No — I’m tired of saying all of society needs to walk on eggshells due to anti-social people like OP. If you go around a bar with a tape recorder and directional microphone capturing conversations from unsuspecting people and then use those private moments to launch protracted harassment campaigns, you’re an asshole. No matter how much you say “they didn’t have an expectation of privacy!”

That's not comparable to posting messages on public websites that can be read by anyone without an account. You don't know who will read them.

If you want to talk privately - talk to people that you trust and use apps like Signal that delete messages after some time.

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#48
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want your stuff permanently archived then don't post it on public websites. It's sad that people don't give a shit about their privacy and overshare everything these days.

No — I’m tired of saying all of society needs to walk on eggshells due to anti-social people like OP. If you go around a bar with a tape recorder and directional microphone capturing conversations from unsuspecting people and then use those private moments to launch protracted harassment campaigns, you’re an asshole. No matter how much you say “they didn’t have an expectation of privacy!”

When you say things on the internet, you say them publicly, and people are allowed to remember your words.

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#49
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, "kfsnd." KF. They're not exactly hiding who they are.

Shrug. They’re on a throwaway because they’re too cowardly to admit who they are and face people like myself who want to hold them accountable for their bullying. I think they’re exactly hiding who they are.

Seems prudent when you have people calling for you to be prosecuted as a criminal accomplice. ;)

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#50
From a technical point of view, there is no meaningful way to put any access controls in place other than server admins choosing to un-federate any misbehaving servers and create their own little bubble. And cutting off most of the fediverse would defeat the point of having one.

Making the information public kind of is the point of putting it on the web on a public url without authentication. Don't do that if you don't want it. And think twice before you publish something you are not comfortable with sharing in public. Not that hard.

But yes, it's a matter of time before these things get crawled, scraped, etc. by all sorts of media organizations, marketing companies, etc. Once you have a critical mass of people who are relatively well educated, with disposable income, etc. any self respecting spammer, advertiser, marketing person, etc. is going to want to be all over this. The fact they haven't shown up yet (at least not a lot) has nothing to do with access controls, just with a lack of critical mass. The fediverse just wasn't that interesting until people started showing up a few months ago. Now we suddenly have people like Tim Bray and other tech influencers showing up. The more clued in linked in junkies are already getting mastodon accounts. That kind of is the point of a good public forum. These people will want to be a part of it.

There are technical solutions of course but they are going to have to involve making mastodon more like a federated signal/telegram, which does not seem to exist just yet. Mastodon just isn't it. Encryption is what you need if you want things to stay private. Of course it doesn't prevent anyone with their own modified client making some modifications that archives the plain text after decryption and information leaking that way. But it would be a lot harder to scrape everything. You basically have to infiltrate every group you want to scrape.

Mastodon with some crypto added would be nice though. The mistake with email was that pgp usage never caught on (too complicated to manage for most people to bother). Signing message content would be a nice start for mastodon. It would allow people to build reputations and verify that messages are coming from who they claim to be. Impersonating people is a thing on Twitter. Without message signatures, it's going to be a thing on mastodon too. And the nice thing with reputations is that they are a great basis for filtering too. If enough servers flag a particular public signature, they might just decline to accept content by that particular signature. Or accept it but filter it out of the public feed by default.

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