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Private and Public Mastodon

tbray.org

31–40 of 191 posts

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#31
> People should be able to converse without their every word landing on a permanent global un-erasable indexed public record. Call me crazy.

Sure, and they should use Signal instead of publishing their conversations and then getting mad when they turn out to be publicly available.

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, look at the facts: - permanently archiving posts they know people don’t want them to - gave early access to known trolls - is now publicly crowing about how there’s nothing you can do about it - on a throwaway, because like most bullies they’re cowards Personally, I’m left wondering if there needs to be an organized crime investigation into KF, for organized harassment campaigns which violate local stalking o…

I mean, "kfsnd." KF. They're not exactly hiding who they are.

Shrug.

They’re on a throwaway because they’re too cowardly to admit who they are and face people like myself who want to hold them accountable for their bullying.

I think they’re exactly hiding who they are.

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#33
> I can imagine finer-grained exclusions, such as allowing full-text indexing but only for accounts on the same instance, or allowing use for search but no other applications. (No ML model building!)

I think it's unlikely that you can prevent ML model building with a carefully designed license. The most common legal position (though not something that has been tested in court yet) is that training models is sufficiently transformative to count as fair use, and does not require any sort of license to the data.

You can see this in all the state of the art tools that are trained on all the publicly available data that they can scrape, without regard for license: translation (text), GPT-3 (text), Stable Diffusion etc (images), Co-Pilot (code).

For preventing trolling and harassment a licensing approach is an even worse fit, since those are not people who care about respecting licenses.

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#34
How I see it: any and all attempts to kneecap user functionality is shameful, anything that you're relying on goodwill for will fail miserably and be exploited. If your plan for handling a full text search of the network is to browbeat the developer into not doing it your days are numbered. If your plan for keeping your words private is to put them publicly on the internet and then call people Nazis or whatever for looking at them without your permission you're not very bright.

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#35
post #29

Wait until you hear about how followers only posts actually work. An analogy would be Microsoft can't figure out how to get email addressing to work in Outlook, so they send every email to every server, and then Exchange does some magic filtering and tells Outlook which of the emails in your inbox should be visible. Then somebody writes an alternative SMTP server that allows viewing of these hidden messages, and Micr…

Hmm, to my knowledge, followers only posts are ActivityPub feature, where you just shovel the message to inboxes of just followers. It is not sending it to all servers? It's also possible to send messages to part of the followers as well, some instances like qoto.org support circles. You make circles from your followers and post to just them. I wouldn't call these privacy features, but ability for sender to choose wh…

I believe followers-only posts are sent to all servers with at least one follower.

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, among the first people you give access to the search are some known harassers? Sharp thinking, there.

I mean, look at the facts: - permanently archiving posts they know people don’t want them to - gave early access to known trolls - is now publicly crowing about how there’s nothing you can do about it - on a throwaway, because like most bullies they’re cowards Personally, I’m left wondering if there needs to be an organized crime investigation into KF, for organized harassment campaigns which violate local stalking o…

If you don't want your stuff permanently archived then don't post it on public websites. It's sad that people don't give a shit about their privacy and overshare everything these days.

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#37
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, I find Facebook friend groups a complete dark pattern ever since the days of Google plus. G+ circle were super easy to create, maintain, split, divide, merge, manipulate, and - and this was brilliant - share. FB groups by comparison seem hidden, obfuscated and unmaintainable. Creating a new list or updating an old one is a complete pain with poor screen usage, poor or non existent gestures, control, ac…

FB is very clearly deeply invested in convincing people to over-share by accident or habit, yeah. It makes their network more addictive, and they know it, so they press that button as hard as possible while building things that technically satisfy niches. --- I quite liked G+'s focus on choosing your audience. Because you have sub-groups even within small, tightly-knit friend groups; when you raise that number into t…

[deleted]

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#38
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, to my knowledge, followers only posts are ActivityPub feature, where you just shovel the message to inboxes of just followers. It is not sending it to all servers? It's also possible to send messages to part of the followers as well, some instances like qoto.org support circles. You make circles from your followers and post to just them. I wouldn't call these privacy features, but ability for sender to choose wh…

I believe followers-only posts are sent to all servers with at least one follower.

That is given, how else could it work?

This is pub/sub, it's not pull based, so every time you release something it is pushed to the subscribers, your followers servers.

I would like to have a bit of pull based things as well, but ActivityPub is not built for it.

Even though it's pushed to a server, doesn't mean it goes to everyone in that server.

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#39
post #7

This idea that you create privacy by leaving the search feature out of the software is silly. Yes, to some extent security through obscurity does work, and trying to maintain an anti-sharing culture might reduce the spread of your information. But is that really what you want to rely on? The other bad pseudo-privacy idea is time-limited posts ("stories" or snapchat or whatever). In both cases, you're crippling the so…

You can't really make that either though. Facebook itself can see everything. As soon as you federate that all the admins can see everything and nothing is private. You could try and encrypt it down to the user level but a person added to a group would only see the content added from that point forward (the ability to decrypt would be defined at the time of the post, and new people could never read it). The only way…

I believe that option 2, where it relies on individual encryption at the cost of reading history, is how matrix does it (or can do it if chosen).

Re: Private and Public Mastodon

#40
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe followers-only posts are sent to all servers with at least one follower.

That is given, how else could it work? This is pub/sub, it's not pull based, so every time you release something it is pushed to the subscribers, your followers servers. I would like to have a bit of pull based things as well, but ActivityPub is not built for it. Even though it's pushed to a server, doesn't mean it goes to everyone in that server.

Even though it's pushed to a server, doesn't mean it goes to everyone in that server.

Right, the issue being raised is that there's nothing preventing it from going to everyone on the server except the server being nice about it.

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