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The internet wants to be fragmented

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231–240 of 246 posts

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#231
post #9

I found myself agreeing with every word of this article. The penultimate paragraph summarizes it well: > People call Twitter an indispensable public space because it’s the “town square”, but in the real world there isn’t just one town square, because there isn’t just one town. There are many. And the internet works when you can exit — when you can move to a different town if you don’t like the mayor or the local cult…

People don't want actually want that though. They want everyone on twitter. Not a small circle of 200 people.

I don't have super-strong opinions on network size necessarily, but assuming that what you say is true, and that this isn't a generational/cultural preference that might evolve over time, it still doesn't strike me as a particularly powerful critique?

The argument here isn't that small towns are preferable, the argument is that they are better, and that they lead to overall healthier social groups.

I don't want to exercise. I want to eat sugar, I don't want eat whole foods. I might as well say, "when are these doctors going to realize that eating healthy and exercising isn't what people actually want to do?"

Whether or not smaller communities are healthier can be debated, but whether or not people want to have smaller social networks is kind of orthogonal to that debate. You can advocate for something that is healthier and that will make your life better and that will overall make you happier if you put in the effort to pursue it, while acknowledging that people are not generally biologically inclined to want to do that thing. In fact, most healthy things that we advocate for in life are not things that we instinctively want to do and are things that require conscious effort and conscious denial of behaviors that we might prefer -- that is in many ways the norm, not an exception.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When -4 pushes you to the very bottom of the page in text so grayed-out that it's not even readable unless you highlight it first, I'd still call that oblivion. Also, flags from just two (?) people remove your comment entirely.

I've seen my comments come back from -4, and being flagged. Apparently, 'unflag' action cancels one 'flag' action. Thus, local oblivion is not irrecoverable.

As far as I know, there is no such thing as an 'unflag' option.

I've heard of the existence of a 'vouch' option, but supposedly it only appears on [dead] comments, not the merely downvoted/flagged-into-oblivion. And of course [dead] comments are hidden entirely by default.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do other people have to refollow you if you move? Can your client form a single timeline when you’re “actually” following from two different places? It seems inconvenient…

Yes, you can move your account. though I dont know if you can still move if your account gets banned.

You lose your followers if you get banned. I was following someone who got banned for disagreeing with moderation policies. I suggested asking the admin to help with the migration; he did, and the admin refused.

This was a rather large server too, featured on JoinMastodon.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#234

It's going to be paradise when we can find our natural best friends AT SCALE Here's my second most recent idea on how to do it, haven't written up the latest yet: http://zeroprecedent.com/A%E2%9D%AF%E2%9D%AEON%20deck%20v.3....

"Machine learning will help you find your best friends." Yes, but how? How will it avoid optimizing on the wrong thing? "It will gather a lot of data and then use algorithms to predict your affinities from it." Yes, but how? What algorithm would do that? Ordinary recommender systems, neural networks, something else? And tight knit communities of close friends rarely have a lot of churn, but at-scale systems often do…

Uh yeah I'm a filthy non-technical.

But it's obviously possible, right?

Current social networks are like those bikes with a huge front tire.

Someone make the tires equal already

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#235
post #9

I found myself agreeing with every word of this article. The penultimate paragraph summarizes it well: > People call Twitter an indispensable public space because it’s the “town square”, but in the real world there isn’t just one town square, because there isn’t just one town. There are many. And the internet works when you can exit — when you can move to a different town if you don’t like the mayor or the local cult…

I've experimented with something similar. Back when I still had a Facebook account, I unfollowed all of my friends (and purged my list to the bare minimum) and joined a bunch of local/regional groups. It infinitely improved Facebook as a tool for connecting with other people.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can move your account. though I dont know if you can still move if your account gets banned.

You lose your followers if you get banned. I was following someone who got banned for disagreeing with moderation policies. I suggested asking the admin to help with the migration; he did, and the admin refused. This was a rather large server too, featured on JoinMastodon.

Generally all official mastodon servers are very left leaning, so if you are conservative, you might get banned quickly, and certainly the admin won't help you migrate.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#237
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

toxic positivity Positively toxic echo chambers. I think you summed it up perfectly. I've seen what you described occur in the past on other chat platforms and forums. Mostly forums. People that think alike get some high rank and access to private sub-forums and people that have thoughts not aligned with the tribe start to think the forum is no longer being used. Not sure how that would translate into the Mastodon pl…

Meh. What's wrong with not wanting every online space I inhabit to be embroiled in ceaseless no-holds-barred political and social warfare? If I want that, it's easy to find, it doesn't have to be everywhere.

That's exactly my point. The bubble I was referring to continues to be highly political. It's not non-political.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#238
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I think the effect of "toxic positivity" is found wherever you create a small community, whether that be Reddit, Mastodon, or anything else. Toxic positivity isn't necessarily about banning, it's rather "soft silencing" within the bubble. Those most ideologically active dominate the network and discourage any type of dissent. To stick with my mask example. There's absolutely no consensus within progressive circle…

Earlier you said "claiming how we should still wear masks", and now you're discussing mandates. I don't think it's contradictory to be opposed to mandates of something you support. As far as my opinion goes, we should still wear masks, but mandates just turn people into petulant children and aren't worth the trouble.

See, I was trying to find the most innocent progressive topic as to not derail from my main point. Which is not masks. It's unhinged ideological purity inside bubbles, which soft silences speech. Masks was just an example.

And yet still you manage to label anybody opposing your opinion as children, even before hearing any argument. You're part of the problem and the very reason people go into silent mode and simply stop bothering.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN's vote count is not public, and negative count is capped at -4 so you can't downvote someone into oblivion.

When -4 pushes you to the very bottom of the page in text so grayed-out that it's not even readable unless you highlight it first, I'd still call that oblivion. Also, flags from just two (?) people remove your comment entirely.

I think the weight of flags varies by account. I'm not sure if it's just karma that affects it, or some other information that's not visible to us.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen my comments come back from -4, and being flagged. Apparently, 'unflag' action cancels one 'flag' action. Thus, local oblivion is not irrecoverable.

As far as I know, there is no such thing as an 'unflag' option. I've heard of the existence of a 'vouch' option, but supposedly it only appears on [dead] comments, not the merely downvoted/flagged-into-oblivion. And of course [dead] comments are hidden entirely by default.

Does your account not have vouch? It has enough karma that I would expect it to.
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