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How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

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Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#81
post #3

I am still looking forward for the option to ungroup task bar buttons, preferably with titles. Again! Something that was there before, worked, and was useful. But some designer decided we don't need that, to the bin with it!

Win XP had this right-click on group in the bar and you could spread the windows evenly on the screen. It was really useful for Matlab plots but for some reason they removed it for Win 7.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#82
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The installation got into my nerves. Past versions wouldn't force having network or a Microsoft account. You could always unplug your cable and setup a local account. Now, that requires opening a console and typing OOBE commands, which took me a while to figure out. The secure boot requirements were also a pain. My hardware is compatible and my first install got TPM enabled, but memory protection and core isolation w…

I'm pretty sure you don't even have to unplug network to install Win10 without Microsoft account - just during the installation you don't create one (or login to existing one)

Exactly. Since a few years now, and as many Windows 10 versions, the disconnection trick is not needed anymore. They still unemphasize the offline profile option (with the usual dark pattern of making a button not look like a button, and to word it as something negative you sure wouldn't want), and nag you twice if you find it, but it's there, hidden in plain sight: you just need to pay attention.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#83
post #6

There is a real cost to consistency/change, and I don't personally believe that this is just laziness or poor design on Microsoft's behalf. Sure, Windows could have changed the look and layout of every component with every release, but with an application as widely used as Windows you really want the ability for users to move from Windows XP to Windows 11 and still have a sense of familiarity and confidence. It is al…

Absolutely, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t decades of backwards compatibility cruft everywhere. Microsoft needs to just support legacy versions of windows more or less forever to keep those institutional users happy and draw a line for the majority of users who want to at least keep some kind of pace. You don’t have to obsolete everything like Apple does, but we’re well past the point where you can virtualize or emulate something like Windows 7 or older and it will still be faster than bare metal of the time.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#84
I rarely use Windows, but every time again I am surprised how they still squeeze most out of their win95 UI concept by only adding new shiny layers.

There are dozens of desktops that went into several mostly consistent redesigns in all that time. Gnome Shell nothing feels like Windows 95, Windows 10 still somewhat does.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#85
post #63
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ncpa.cpl cuts a long way to get there.

It looks like Windows is heading towards Linux in this matter- having to know weird commands to get things done effectively. I only use Windows occasionally, but when I have to set up a printer (shared from another computer) or file sharing, I often have to resort to either creating obscure registry entries based on random internet tutorials or use command line to figure out what exactly the GUI wizard means by "the…

Windows is heading towards linux in that most of the "new" settings app is calling powershell under the hood.

Just like in the linux where all GUI's are more or less just wrappers around command line utilities or have 1:1 cmd line alternatives, Windows is becoming powershell first then GUI.

Where before ALOT of functionality was only accessible from the GUI

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#86
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpopular opinion: Windows UI has a lot of problems, but it's still much more intuitive and stupid-proof than macOS. Having worked with both, macOS is just inconsistent to the core (and Finder is an application one would have to pay a team of developers with the core instruction of 'make it a non-intuitive and unusable mess'). Also, I still use apps last maintained in 2010 on the latest Windows version, while apps wr…

This was my impression after moving to macOS after years of using Windows and Gnome as well. The "document-oriented" window management and the fact that you can Cmd+X selected text, but not selected files is deeply bizarre.

No cut for files is not bizarre in a macOS world of course, just from your expectations.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#87

I would prefer for feature to exist and work and don't care if the buttons look the same. I am super salty because I tried to run some old 32 bits qt4 and gtk2 python apps on latest Kubuntu LTS (I am 100% only Linux for years )and I just wasted hours without any satisfaction, at least on Windows 10 year old programs will still work most of the time(probably some old games could fail but might be a driver issue and no…

What problems did you run into? If it's dependencies and packages no longer being shipped, you'll have the same issues running those Python programs on Windows and probably the same solutions as well (downloading all the old sources, compiling all the libraries manually). You can still run the x86 ABI on x64 (or any other architecture through qemu) though unlike Windows, most Linux distros don't ship support for it b…

For Windows Qt developers will put the Qt dlls in the application , not statically link. So in general you will probably be able to run an old Qt app on Linux by using Wine.

Yeah, the issue is missing dependencies, the 32 bit versions, Linux Gamers complained so there still are some 32 bit packages around but not all of them.

Compiling this old apps I assume will hit same issue, this time missing even more packages since I will need all GTK2 dependencies. I wish there was a nice, slim way to put in a folder all the libraries from a say 16.04 release and tell this app to look there in that folder.

App images would probably be the solution, but who will find all those old projects from source forge that have very few users and rebuild them?

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#88
post #60
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 8 with Metro and Start Screen was practically unusable, with the desktop in a /desktop computer/ relegated to third-rate citizen status. Any other Windows UI even as far back as Windows 1 is better than the piece of hot, useless garbage that was Windows 8.

This is exactly the mindless vitriol I had in mind. Flow A: hit a button, a menu with text input and pictures shows up Flow B: hit a button, a full screen with text input and pictures shows up A is perfect, and B is "practically unusable".

It was confusing and forced.

The most sold app in their crappy app store was a 20USD classic start menu.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#89
post #63
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ncpa.cpl cuts a long way to get there.

It looks like Windows is heading towards Linux in this matter- having to know weird commands to get things done effectively. I only use Windows occasionally, but when I have to set up a printer (shared from another computer) or file sharing, I often have to resort to either creating obscure registry entries based on random internet tutorials or use command line to figure out what exactly the GUI wizard means by "the…

PowerShell has been around for a long time.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#90
The codebase goes back to nearly 40 years. It would be more shocking if it there weren't legacy code hanging around.

Windows is one of the most impressive pieces of software I have ever seen. No other platform boasts the kind of backwards compatibility that is seen in this operating system. There are shim layers on top of shim layers and the developers seem to have gone through great pains to keep the operating system backwards compatible.

Comparatively, the Linux kernel API is stable, though applications relying on newer system calls are forever stuck requiring minimum kernel versions. On the userspace side, application packages are in a near constant state of flux and can break with a single version/dependency change.

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