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How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

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Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#31
post #4

I would be curious for a similar dissection of modern macOS. My intuitive sense is that it is a little better though there are probably still at least 5 layers of stuff. So to some extent, does doing this better at the scale of a modern user-facing OS provide enough return on investment?

Ummm... macOS (aka OS X) have been using a single UI toolkit (AppKit) since the beginning. (Carbon apps no longer work since Catalina, because Carbon was never updated to 64-bit)

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#33
post #26
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Costs money.

So does Windows itself. If you're afraid to or don't want to pay for software then you should probably use some variant of GNU/Linux instead.

Windows doesn't cost money because I pirate it. I could pirate this program as well but it's probably going to be harder to find a clean, recent version of it.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#34

As a 25+ year user of windows none of this stuff bothers me. What ticks me off is just the abysmal quality of windows 11 compared to the past. It’s like no one working on it has any pride in their job Example: - hate the new notification area. The action center was so much better - dumb stuff like a window update notification that shows a c# class name instead of windows update - clicking said notification does not b…

- calendar of task bar became useless

- swipe from the left is unchangeably wasted for trash news

- touch interaction (especially in Edge) is worse than Windows 8: I am dependant on a virtual touch pad to do certain stuff (e.g. selecting text and copying it via context menu)

- start menu customization possibilities are ridiculously low

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#35
>The ability to choose icons that are more than 30 years old is still here, with the inclusion of the very important and absolutely critical to the good function of the OS moricons.dll

I will happily bet there are programs out there that would crash and burn horrifically without moricons.dll.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#36
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why they rushed out the release, Windows 10 was and is fine and I don't think any customers were really interested in this new version/ui update/whatever total blunder imo but I think most people are just happy it's not as screwed up as whatever the hell Windows8 was for me personally besides the common complaints just getting to the weather widget is now a huge microannoyance that drives me up the wall

I am still baffled by the whole Windows 8 drama. All they did was they replaced a menu with another one. Everything else was the same or better. Supposed power users freaking out about something completely inconsequential. What the hell is wrong with people

I liked Windows 8. And still use it on one computer. The PDF reader app that used Windows 8 design principles has one of the most intuitive interfaces, IMO.

Now they’ve gone and half-baked that design in new software and it’s less intuitive, eg clicking file menu item and a whole new screen appears.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#37
post #22
post #6

There is a real cost to consistency/change, and I don't personally believe that this is just laziness or poor design on Microsoft's behalf. Sure, Windows could have changed the look and layout of every component with every release, but with an application as widely used as Windows you really want the ability for users to move from Windows XP to Windows 11 and still have a sense of familiarity and confidence. It is al…

With those 8 or so (partial!) redesigns I do not feel the overwhelming urge for consistency here. (in fact they broke this and that along the road, the latest and most crucial for me is the taskbar, and I am not talking about the alignemnt, not at all, but all the other possibilities gone, starting with the option of grouping/ungrouping, but not ending there)

> (in fact they broke this and that along the road, the latest and most cruitial for me is the taskbar, and I am not talking about the alignemnt, not at all, but all the other possibilities gone, starting with the option of grouping/ungrouping, but not ending there)

The way I look at it (which may be wrong!) is that companies get a 'change budget' of how much users will tolerate in terms of change (i.e. an 'emotional' budget with users rather than a cash/resource budget).

Look at the large facebook designs which recieved huge amounts of backlash from the community - while each of them pushed Facebook in the right direction, each of the changes was also very disruptive to an extent that Microsoft probably couldn't tolerate in Windows.

This time around they decided to use a lot of their 'change budget' on the taskbar, which probably means you don't want to touch other parts. IMO they should have added the option of grouping/ungrouping too before making the change, although the fact that people are complaining about taskbar grouping probably further demonstrates how careful Microsoft needs to be with design changes (Especially as you can probably see WHY Microsoft might want to remove the option of grouping/ungrouping and follow their thought process with this, which shows how easily these UI pitfalls can occur when making changes).

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#38
post #3

I am still looking forward for the option to ungroup task bar buttons, preferably with titles. Again! Something that was there before, worked, and was useful. But some designer decided we don't need that, to the bin with it!

I miss the vertical task bar option. Vertical space is more valuable than horizontal with 16x9 higher aspect ratio.

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#39
post #4

I would be curious for a similar dissection of modern macOS. My intuitive sense is that it is a little better though there are probably still at least 5 layers of stuff. So to some extent, does doing this better at the scale of a modern user-facing OS provide enough return on investment?

Unpopular opinion: Windows UI has a lot of problems, but it's still much more intuitive and stupid-proof than macOS. Having worked with both, macOS is just inconsistent to the core (and Finder is an application one would have to pay a team of developers with the core instruction of 'make it a non-intuitive and unusable mess'). Also, I still use apps last maintained in 2010 on the latest Windows version, while apps written just a few years back don't work on macOS 12.6 anymore.

(P.S. - Latest Windows when installed with MS 'PowerToys' brings a few missing things in Windows from macOS where it might otherwise shine)

Re: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 11?

#40
post #11

I have a bit of a perfectionistic tendency to 'start over' things over and over and do them again as perfectly as possible; the Windows side of MS feels like a corporate embodiment of this habit. They've done this sort of thing with app installers(setup.exe, click once, appv, msi, msix) and UI frameworks(win32, mfc, wpf, winui 2, winui 3). It's like the teams responsible for their respective product keep starting ove…

Setup.exe was installshield, not MS. Back then MS was still pushing .cab files
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