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Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

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Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#201

Post by neontomo »

neilv wrote: post #42

You might see whether your local community college has good classes that supplement what you already know, and what companies hire software interns/co-ops/newgrads from there. (Long ago, this, and luck, was how I jumped from self-taught, to a co-op student at a first-rate engineering company, and maybe it can still work.) And some colleges/universities have options for students outside of a Bachelor's degree program.…

There is a very well-considered coding bootcamp near me that I've heard sometimes leads to jobs, but that could be the marketing speaking. I'm considering it after finishing my current studies. I think what I would bring to the table would be some soft skills, having worked in the service industry for a long time. And I'm organised with my code, without over-doing it. I hope that will be an asset.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#202

Post by neontomo »

mediascreen wrote: post #158

I think it depends on what kind of programming job you want. In my experience hiring practices wary a lot between different types of companies. Getting a job at a FAANG type of company varies from getting hired by a local web agency, a consultancy, startup or just being hired to run the company website. HN tends to focus a lot on FAANG and well financed startups, but there are a lot of very different programming jobs…

I'm more interested in a start-up or a smaller company, I think. But without experience I don't really know what will suit me best.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#203

Post by neontomo »

leke wrote: post #141

From hobbyist I went and did a bachelors in business information technology. I also did some coding for a charity and made some online apps for the organisers. On the degree program, I did work experience, and then afterwards applied for jobs. I guess you can skip education, but where I come from, it's hard to get employed without previously working some place else, which is why most people do related work training (…

Thank you, I'm working on building out my Github now.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#204

Post by neontomo »

jolux wrote: post #29

I made friends with a lot of professional programmers so many of them were aware of my skills. Eventually one of them helped me get my first job despite the fact that I had just dropped out of a CS program because of depression. I wish I had a better answer for you, but a strong professional network is always going to be key to your career prospects.

I think you're right, a network is a piece of magic that shouldn't be underestimated when it comes to pretty much anything. I'm currently studying AI Business so I do have access to some great people but few are programmers.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#205

Post by neontomo »

hahamrfunnyguy wrote: post #89

I faced the same problem breaking into the job market right after the early 2000's .COM bust. I didn't get any calls back for full-time opportunities. Even entry level ones. What I did find was available were freelance gigs. I found these on job boards and started to build out my experience with individual projects. I also went to networking events and ended up getting a few jobs this way as well. I also did some fre…

Thank you, I have some projects in my Github page and have my own website up and running. I do need to work on adding more projects though, thank you.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#206

Post by smadge »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #41
bee_rider wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like your interviewer just a a grudge against you or something.

Gray hair has resulted in a lot of grudges. I've even had a couple of folks just come out and say it. I know that my generation (and the one before) have caused many issues, but I'm not your typical "OK boomer."

I’m sorry. Not only is that unethical, it is illegal. These companies need to stop discriminating on age.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#207

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

smadge wrote: post #206
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gray hair has resulted in a lot of grudges. I've even had a couple of folks just come out and say it. I know that my generation (and the one before) have caused many issues, but I'm not your typical "OK boomer."

I’m sorry. Not only is that unethical, it is illegal. These companies need to stop discriminating on age.

> it is illegal

But it is not enforced. Tech companies don't bother to hide it at all. They run job ads that all but say "Bros only."

When money is being made, the authorities tend to look the other way. That has been going on in the finance industry for decades (and don't get me started on crypto).

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#208

Post by aussiesnack »

smadge wrote: post #206
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gray hair has resulted in a lot of grudges. I've even had a couple of folks just come out and say it. I know that my generation (and the one before) have caused many issues, but I'm not your typical "OK boomer."

I’m sorry. Not only is that unethical, it is illegal. These companies need to stop discriminating on age.

Depends on what country you're in. It's illegal here in Australia, but almost universally practised regardless. The law is not in reality available to most people, nor is it by and large adhered to by business except where absolutely necessary (ie. predictably enforced). Every large company I've worked for has broken the law with impunity.

There good cause for "the law" in daily reality (as opposed to "The Law" as an abstract good) not to be held in any esteem by ordinary folk.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#209

Post by josephg »

phphphphp wrote: post #200
josephg wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regarding coding challenges, I meant to say that … They're meaningless. They’re not meaningless. I worked as a technical screener for a recruiting company a few years ago. We interviewed thousands of people and had good data on this stuff. Programming challenges had high signal - doing well at ours was positively correlated with all the other parts of our quantitative assessment (knowledge, software anrchitecture,…

If you design a hiring process that values a coding challenge then of course people who do well at the coding challenge will do well in the process. The problem with coding challenges is that they do not require the same skills that software engineering requires. The value of a hired software engineer is measured over many years, you can’t possibly measure the success of a prospect based on whether or not they get hi…

> Instead, they’re assessing candidates on what is actually relevant to the company.

Great question - what is relevant to the company? This is the #1 purpose of technical screening: To assess whether the candidate can do the job you're trying to hire them for. If the job involves programming, one of the things you need to assess is whether the person can program.

Telling me your job history, verbally solving hypothetical architecture problems, or pointing to a github repository with some code in it does not assess whether you can program. All of these things are good signals, but past experience can be misleading, and github activity is trivially easy to fake.

I've interviewed over 400 people. All of them passed an automated screening process before they talked to me. About half of the people I talked to failed to solve a simple 1st year programming problem, using their own computer and their favorite language in the half an hour we allotted to the task. Beginners I understand, but its shocking the number of people who have somehow worked in the industry for 20+ years yet only seem to be able to paw ineffectually at eclipse when you ask them to write fizzbuzz.

Any interview process that doesn't screen these people out is useless. Its harsh but, if you are one of these people I love you but I don't want to hire you.

Lots of people seem to hate programming challenges. But I've yet to hear a viable alternative. Whats yours?

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#210

Post by brailsafe »

I would imagine you'd approach it like any other junior developer would, some kind of portfolio, and applying to literally anything until you get in, as well as meeting people. A hiring manager would see anything as a risk, including your working years as anything else, because they'd need to imagine that you can take instruction from a 25 y.o intermediate or 29 y.o "senior" person on a team. If doing it as a job is something you truly want to do, and that is a big if, apply to some really boring corporate gigs in junior positions.

There's a big difference between being good at hobbyist programming and being good at it as a job of any kind, but the closest approximation would be contracting. That's because as soon as it's something you have to do rather than something you just want to do, the entire dynamic changes.

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