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Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

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Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had one chap refuse to check my portfolio, because "I probably faked it." Here's my GH ID: https://github.com/ChrisMarshallNY You can easily see that I faked over a decade of checkin history, dozens of repos, in multiple organizations, over 20 shipped apps, lots of blog posts, tutorials, class modules, etc.

Sounds like your interviewer just a a grudge against you or something.

Gray hair has resulted in a lot of grudges. I've even had a couple of folks just come out and say it.

I know that my generation (and the one before) have caused many issues, but I'm not your typical "OK boomer."

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#42
You might see whether your local community college has good classes that supplement what you already know, and what companies hire software interns/co-ops/newgrads from there. (Long ago, this, and luck, was how I jumped from self-taught, to a co-op student at a first-rate engineering company, and maybe it can still work.)

And some colleges/universities have options for students outside of a Bachelor's degree program. These might or might not teach better than a community college. (But "Harvard Extension School", for example, will probably get past more resume screeners than a community college.) Both might teach you more than a bootcamp. And, again, look for something set up for internships, or with relationships with specific employers.

Beware that the field is absolutely flooded by everyone in their dog, and it's hard to distinguish yourself. I suppose the upside is that there's so much not-so-stellar work being done, that a newbie could their foot in the door at a typical place, survive while they contribute, and grow from there.

But this flood also means that people hiring will reach for a kind of gatekeeping (to narrow down the pool of candidates, and to try to cement themselves as a superior in-group), which, at the moment, means you probably need to practice for Leetcode hazings.

If you have a lot of time, doing open source is an option to eventually stand out, but if you do this, pick something in a space where people are hiring. ("I wrote a JIT compiler for a dynamic dialect of Haskell that targets GPU" wouldn't even get you considered for 99% of jobs, and most of the remaining 1% would insist you regurgitate Leetcode algorithm as performance art so they can "verify that you know algorithms" or so that they "can see how you think". "Yes, I looked at your GitHub, and it didn't have many stars." :)

Also keep in mind that Copilot-like tools integrated into IDEs are going to let a lot of low-skilled developers launder open source code, to pass off as their own (justifying it as "I let the tool do the boilerplate, so I can focus on the more difficult, higher-level problems"). I don't know how the near-term evolution of this will play out, but it might be best as a force multiplier for low-skilled, low-quality work. You might want to be thinking about how to be on a path to eventually stand out for high-quality work, for which companies won't trust this generation of automation (even if they were willing to gamble with a Copilot-induced GPL lawsuit, and VC due diligence doesn't start smacking down for this).

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#44
Make side projects or freelance work you can show off. If you know any programmers who are willing to look at your code and make suggestions, even better. You want to build things that challenge you.

I can't tell you whether a bootcamp is a good idea without understanding what you know and what you're looking to learn.

The organizations that tend to have an open mind towards people like you are the ones that can't afford not to. Small companies, non-profits, agencies, underfunded startups. Your advantage is your cheap and you to dive in and learn new things.

It gets much easier after that first job.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#45

Job experience is a cheap proxy for the ability to get things done : if you've had multiple programming jobs, then you've probably been able to get things done and so hiring you is a safe choice. The absence of programming job experience doesn't mean you can't get things done, it just means you need to demonstrate to employers that you can get things done in other ways. You don't need to do a bootcamp (and I'd argue…

> Passing a coding challenge is easy Something must be wrong with me then because I've been programming for decades in multiple areas productively, but successfully completing three leetcode medium/hard within 45 minutes while also talking through my thought process is not something I'd call easy. > so don't focus on them at all I'd suggest most people aren't going to get past the first level if they follow this advi…

If you know how to study and practice passing programming challenges are definitely significantly easier than programming for decades in multiple areas productively

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#46

Job experience is a cheap proxy for the ability to get things done : if you've had multiple programming jobs, then you've probably been able to get things done and so hiring you is a safe choice. The absence of programming job experience doesn't mean you can't get things done, it just means you need to demonstrate to employers that you can get things done in other ways. You don't need to do a bootcamp (and I'd argue…

Being able to ship code yourself is a requirement for getting to junior level at most places. It's much easier than working on an existing codebase as part of a team

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#47

Job experience is a cheap proxy for the ability to get things done : if you've had multiple programming jobs, then you've probably been able to get things done and so hiring you is a safe choice. The absence of programming job experience doesn't mean you can't get things done, it just means you need to demonstrate to employers that you can get things done in other ways. You don't need to do a bootcamp (and I'd argue…

> Passing a coding challenge is easy Something must be wrong with me then because I've been programming for decades in multiple areas productively, but successfully completing three leetcode medium/hard within 45 minutes while also talking through my thought process is not something I'd call easy. > so don't focus on them at all I'd suggest most people aren't going to get past the first level if they follow this advi…

I think three in 45 mins is a bit hyperbole. Interviewing at Google I got 45 mins for each. At Amazon I got an hour for each. (Both mediums)

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#48
What kind of software have you written? Open source projects you have worked on that are on github? Microcontrollers you have programmed for home automation? What have you done that proves to a company you can write software?

A coding challenge for 1 hour is the minimum. It isn't a real system that does useful stuff. What can you show them that is real?

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#49

Job experience is a cheap proxy for the ability to get things done : if you've had multiple programming jobs, then you've probably been able to get things done and so hiring you is a safe choice. The absence of programming job experience doesn't mean you can't get things done, it just means you need to demonstrate to employers that you can get things done in other ways. You don't need to do a bootcamp (and I'd argue…

We may think coding challenges are easy - but after interviewing many "senior" engineers I've found that it's very helpful to have _some_ sort of coding as part of the interview. Algorithm and Data Structures based questions are not really popular, but they are at least a known quantity and can be studied for as a candidate.

I prefer more realistic scenario type coding interviews (ie implement a new feature, fix a buggy function, etc), but in any case it is impossible to actually verify what a candidate actually coded in their previous jobs.

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