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Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

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Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#121

Post by watchdogtimer »

lrvick wrote: post #111
wturner wrote: post #51

If you can pass employer coding challenges as easily as you say, the rest is low hanging fruit. It’s hard for me to imagine what the problem is on your end. I have the complete inverse problem. Here’s what I would do: Make up a name for your own personal company and get a matching domain. Make a basic website with your domain. Under the resume/CV entry for this make-believe-company write that you perform contract wor…

I founded a community called #! 20 years ago where anyone can show up and start hacking on community projects and get some mentorship. We sometimes put bounties on things we wish to see done for the community, but in general we are a non-profit digital hackerspace and do not pay ourselves or anyone else. We encourage anyone that contributes that is unemployed to put it on their resume and we are happy to be referrals…

Do you have a link to this organization?

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#122

Post by eamonnsullivan »

I've had two (main) careers -- I was a journalist for 20 years, starting as a sport reporter for a local weekly, and ending as the legal affairs editor for Europe for a international news service. But I had also been a computer geek for at least as long. My Dad worked for IBM and I had one of the first IBM PCs, which was utterly useless when the family got one unless you could program in BASIC. I took a few CompSci classes in college (but got a degree in history) and used those skills often in my journalism career, even creating one of the earliest web sites (and announcing it on TBL's email list at CERN).

My second career is as a software engineer. I did it by leveraging my domain knowledge and going into R&D -- looking at how to design software for journalists to help them be more accurate and faster. For example, how to draw the eye toward areas where mistakes are commonly made and how to handle mundane things automatically. (These kinds of things are important on a news wire, where competition is measured in seconds.) Eventually, it was evident that I knew as much about programming as the programmers and things took off from there. I'm now a Principal at the BBC.

(Edit: I've been paid to program now since 2007, so I'm probably well on my way to having a second 20-year career before I retire.)

So, basically, start where you are, using what you already know. That's more valuable than you think. Most programmers know relatively little about their users, and one who knows can be very valuable.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#123

Post by mtnGoat »

rubberband wrote: post #86

Late to the party, but maybe I can help. I've helped in the hiring of many developers. (grain of salt, just my opinion, etc...) * Don't do bootcamps. It's a red flag for me. This can be said for any 100% online college. (again, I'm just being honest). Community colleges are fine. * You having a Github that you've committed stuff to often-ish will most interest me. I don't give a crud if you contribute to open source.…

Interesting. I’ve hired At least 100 developers in my career And have never seen coding challenges or boot camps as Red flags, rather I see them as someone going out and trying to learn and improve. On the contrary certain universities and employers certainly are( too much indoctrination(and ego in some cases) to undo). I know a number of boot camp graduates working in FANG level companies.

Coding challenges are very important, leetcode questions come up a lot in interviewing loops at most big companies and I think their use is expanding. As much as I hate LC, it’s still a good skill to have if wanting to become a software engineer.

I’ve never once looked at a candidates GitHub. There is no proof they wrote anything there. Plus I’ve usually worked in domains that always required tools and knowledge you most likely wouldn’t have anyways, no point in testing, so I hire based on if your a good person with the propensity to learn, grow, and do good things.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#124

Post by chaps »

foreverCarlos wrote: post #107
tinco wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've hired from bootcamps multiple times, it's a great source of junior developers. It is however a show of the absolute minimum amount of skill a person could possibly have before you take them on as a developer. If this person says that they've been coding for years, then that puts them at a way higher level than a recent bootcamp grad. Instead of doing a bootcamp, spend a week or two building simple apps in whatev…

That still doesn’t make bootcamps a red flag. Also, there are many self-taught programmers who complete a bootcamp just to gain confidence, make connections, etc.

I think it's a red flag when it's also attached to a certain kind of confidence that their bootcamp experience was on-par with years of experience or education. As in, the kind of attitude where that they feel that because they went through the exhausting bootcamp stage, everything next is just an application of what came from the bootcamp. It's something I've only seen with programmers from bootcamps.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#125

Post by kept3k »

I think working on an side project that would showcase your skills would be more than enough.

Any project that is data-driven, includes authentication & authorization, and a clean UI.

All with minimal frameworks, and in public eye like GitHub so they can see code quality.

I think that paired with a good personality would be a home run getting a job.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#126

Post by barbariangrunge »

Bilal_io wrote: post #54
masukomi wrote: post #28

> Without any programming jobs on my CV, what is a good way to penetrate into the market? freelance work. Sign up on Upwork.com (or similar). Do a bunch of contracts. Put them on your resume. I did freelance work for years before deciding i was sick of constantly hustling for clients. Then I applied for jobs and said "here's all the things I've done" and they were like "cool. interview. yup. you're hired" Also, pro-t…

I'd like to add that freelance on Upwork can lead to long term relationships with clients, which have kick-started many people's careers as software engineers, including mine.

Don’t you have to sign contracts forbidding you from working with them except through the platforms?

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#127

Post by barbariangrunge »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #16
JKCalhoun wrote: post #5

Two ways in I have witnessed: 1) Ship something. "App Stores" make that easy. Interviewer can easily download your app(s) and have plenty of material to ask you about during the interview. 2) Get hired into "QA" — preferably for a position that allows you to write (code) tests. Many of our "testers" where I worked moved into engineering when they were seen as willing and able to make the move.

> Interviewer can easily download your app(s) and have plenty of material to ask you about during the interview. In my experience, this never happened. I strongly suspect that was because they had already decided they weren’t going to hire me (I was 55, when I was interviewing), and didn’t want to waste the time.

I downloaded apps by the person we most recently hired. Why wouldn’t you?

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#128

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #127
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interviewer can easily download your app(s) and have plenty of material to ask you about during the interview. In my experience, this never happened. I strongly suspect that was because they had already decided they weren’t going to hire me (I was 55, when I was interviewing), and didn’t want to waste the time.

I downloaded apps by the person we most recently hired. Why wouldn’t you?

I would have killed for a portfolio like mine. I never had that chance, when I was a hiring manager. My portfolio was designed for people like I was, when I was a manager.

However, I gave the opportunity to a few, and they ignored it. In at least one case, their ignoring it was a fairly blatant move to get me to give up. It worked.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#129

Post by franciscop »

robocat wrote: post #52
franciscop wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that part of "the ability to get things done" is exactly what OP is likely missing as a hobbyist: the ability to work with peers and superiors effectively. Doing a bootcamp is IMHO a good way to help on the ability to work with peers; while it's not the focus and you might get bored on the coding side of things, that's also good because it gives you time to think and act on how to collaborate more effective…

> I'd argue that part of "the ability to get things done" is exactly what OP is likely missing as a hobbyist: the ability to work with peers and superiors effectively Completely disagree: in plenty of other jobs people learn to get things done, and how to work with peers/bosses/reports. There is not much signal about the OPs soft skill level so you are making an assumption. Interpersonal skills tend to be strongest i…

Agreed, I've made an assumption and I explicitly added adjectives to note so, like "likely", "IMHO", etc. It's not a crazy assumption though, OP seems pretty lost career-wise, no previous dev experience, unable to land a job in a world hungry for devs, and I'd argue they don't seem to have enough people-skills to figure these questions without resorting to the internet, all of which suggest to be either a student or pretty early in their career. Could be mistaken of course, just saying assuming it's someone early in their career to base my answer on something tangible doesn't seem crazy.

Re: Ask HN: How does a hobby programmer get hired?

#130

Post by lrvick »

watchdogtimer wrote: post #121
lrvick wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I founded a community called #! 20 years ago where anyone can show up and start hacking on community projects and get some mentorship. We sometimes put bounties on things we wish to see done for the community, but in general we are a non-profit digital hackerspace and do not pay ourselves or anyone else. We encourage anyone that contributes that is unemployed to put it on their resume and we are happy to be referrals…

Do you have a link to this organization?

https://hashbang.sh

Not much on the website. You will find us at the end of the rabbit hole.

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