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The internet wants to be fragmented

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111–120 of 246 posts

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#111
post #99

In the spirit of the article, how do you start your own community these days? I think it was phpbb that was popular last time I checked (perhaps 15 y ago).

I believe Discord and Telegram may fill in the gap. WhatsApp is kind of personal, where you communicate with your real world friends.

But these are all closed communities. I just think that it would be a point in having a community that is also searchable from google? Why is closed communities like Discord so popular?

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#112

In the spirit of the article, how do you start your own community these days? I think it was phpbb that was popular last time I checked (perhaps 15 y ago).

Marketing is the eternal way. Software changes frequently.

What do you mean?

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#113
post #70

The biggest problem is the like button. The like button is not only a bad metric - it's the worst possible metric. Speaking up used to be something you do to change someone's mind or yours. What's the point in speaking up if nobody does anything with what you said? The like button reprogrammed people. They started getting positive feedback for speaking in an echo chamber, for saying and doing things their audience al…

The biggest problem is that you can make money from the internet. The internet was more about self-expression and fun. Then people realized they can sell things or themselves (being a "content-creator", "thought-leader", etc.). As a result the most active people are tailoring their actions towards increasing engagement, getting you to buy something, getting you to think a certain way, etc. and we have a divide betwee…

I would say the biggest problem is advertising. It would be much less harmful if commercial content was upfront about asking for your wallet, and the transaction ended there (the publisher's incentives are directly aligned with the end-customer's). Instead, we have stuff that's technically "free" but actually comes with plenty of strings attached such as mismatched incentives - the content is only there as bait and the actual objective is to get you to look at an ad or think a certain way for commercial gain. Worse, this "free" stuff being out there means there's not enough pressure to build a good, universal micropayments system to displace advertising, so the problem remains.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#114

It's going to be paradise when we can find our natural best friends AT SCALE Here's my second most recent idea on how to do it, haven't written up the latest yet: http://zeroprecedent.com/A%E2%9D%AF%E2%9D%AEON%20deck%20v.3....

Interesting concept but what seems more compelling to me would be more like a Tiktok/Reddit hybrid. You log in and see content that "the algorithm" knows you'll like, but with an added element of community from people "the algorithm" knows you'll find cool/funny/insightful/etc. Like a simulacrum of the Facebook feed but instead of friends and family it's this "tribe". No need for labels or even naming those people.

Feels like this is what social media is trying to achieve anyway but they're mostly stuck with the existing social graph as a starting point...

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spend far less time subjected to advertisements on the internet than when I used to watch TV. Near zero time, actually. Now it is a game of figuring out the shills that are advertising, but trying to disguise their content as not advertising.

That is exactly what “spending your time dealing with advertising” means. See also cigarettes and food products with the labels turned out. Soap operas are literally named after advertising. At least they’re honest about it.

TV is minimum 1/3 time advertising, 2/3 content, but that is ignoring shilling and product placement in the content.

I do not spend anywhere near 1/3rd of my time on the internet figuring out what is and is not advertising. Mostly by avoiding content with images and video.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#116
post #110

The biggest problem is the like button. The like button is not only a bad metric - it's the worst possible metric. Speaking up used to be something you do to change someone's mind or yours. What's the point in speaking up if nobody does anything with what you said? The like button reprogrammed people. They started getting positive feedback for speaking in an echo chamber, for saying and doing things their audience al…

Imo there's dimensions to which different systems let users express themselves. 1. The like button (e.g. Twitter) [1 dimension, discrete] 2. Clapping (e.g. Medium) [1 dimension, (kinda-)cotinuous] 2. Upvote/downvote (e.g. Reddit) [1 dimension, 2 directions, discrete] 3. Preset reactions (e.g. iMessage) [multiple dimensions, discrete] 4. Any emoji reaction (e.g. Slack) [(kinda-)infinite dimensions, discrete] 5. User-d…

The maximum amount of nuance is here: the Reply button. But I agree with your point. We need something short of the Reply button because reading large numbers of replies just to get a sentiment analysis is not practical.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#117
post #110

The biggest problem is the like button. The like button is not only a bad metric - it's the worst possible metric. Speaking up used to be something you do to change someone's mind or yours. What's the point in speaking up if nobody does anything with what you said? The like button reprogrammed people. They started getting positive feedback for speaking in an echo chamber, for saying and doing things their audience al…

Imo there's dimensions to which different systems let users express themselves. 1. The like button (e.g. Twitter) [1 dimension, discrete] 2. Clapping (e.g. Medium) [1 dimension, (kinda-)cotinuous] 2. Upvote/downvote (e.g. Reddit) [1 dimension, 2 directions, discrete] 3. Preset reactions (e.g. iMessage) [multiple dimensions, discrete] 4. Any emoji reaction (e.g. Slack) [(kinda-)infinite dimensions, discrete] 5. User-d…

The simplest possible implementation of user interaction is writing a response. It's already as rich as it can be. It gives less power to bots because bots are incoherent. I feel like the internet devolved us from eloquent human speakers back into monkeys making few noises for communicating. Emoji is similar.

Speak. Write text. Formulate your position. We're humans not apes. Get feedback from speaking. The video format in some cases is the same - ape like reaction movies, no content. Assume you're interacting with someone intelligent who isn't convinced by the funny number of likes on your post, but by the content of what you say.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#118
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, IRC didn't even had encryption and anyone in IRC chat can still record everything just fine. That's so weird thing to have issue with.

IRC has had encryption for a very long time. IRCS is typically on port 6697 but some admins also have it listen on 443 for people behind fascist firewalls. anyone in IRC chat can still record everything just fine I addressed this. Yes, someone can invite a bot in a channel they control and the channel operators can kick/ban a bot. Also people can achieve E2EE encryption using OTR. So in fact there are two layers of e…

>IRC has had encryption for a very long time. IRCS is typically on port 6697 but some admins also have it listen on 443 for people behind fascist firewalls.

Transit encryption maybe, but admins can still read everything.

Re: The internet wants to be fragmented

#120
post #25

Now the article was only talking about twitter and social media, but I can't help react on the title since there really is no evidence at all of internet wanting to be fragmented. In fact it's just the opposite. - Not even the most hardcore people are using IRC anymore - All web hosting is now in the cloud - There's basically only two rendering engines left, of which one is at the moment extremely marginalized - GIT…

These are all false equivalencies, as you're talking technology and implementation instead of a consumer product or idea. The author is talking about centralization of moderation and audience, not how it's hosted or how that moderation/audience is presented to the user

People moved off of IRC because it was inconvenient for less-technical users, it is far easier to just download an app. That doesn't mean they want those apps to be centralized, or don't want their social media to be fragmented so they're talking to only like-minded individuals.

It is 100% possible that someone creates a technologically-centralized app that allows for a decentralized audience and moderation. I'm not aware of anyone doing this though.

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