Live data from Hacker News

U.S. universities, rich in data, struggle to capture its value, study finds

newsroom.ucla.edu

11–20 of 97 posts

Re: U.S. universities, rich in data, struggle to capture its value, study finds

#11

This article feels like it took hundreds of words to say nothing at all. The funniest part was the example of security cameras. What big breakthroughs are universities hoping to achieve with this data?

They're being pushed very hard from the supply side while lacking much push-back internally due to dwindling expertise and leadership.

This 4 parter I wrote for Techrights [1] and the Times article that seeded it [2] go into detail.

[1] http://techrights.org/2022/12/28/andy-farnell-on-british-uni...

[2] https://www.timeshighereducation.com/campus/eliminating-harm...

Re: U.S. universities, rich in data, struggle to capture its value, study finds

#12
I have no doubt the problem is worse in academia, but to be quite honest nobody is really doing a good job at curating, governing and unifying data across large organizations (at least without extreme expense.)

Just look at the treadmill of architectures designed to "solve" this problem: integrated databases to "data warehouses" to "linked data" to "data lakes" to "data fabric" to "data mesh."

Organizations that succeed do so because they have the resources to prioritize data management, and do so at significant team size and expense. But any organization that doesn't (or can't) view data curation as first class, top-line budget isn't in a position to capture even a small part of the theoretical value of their data.

Consider the "data mesh" architecture, the latest fad in this space. It basically assumes that not only do you have a dedicated data curation team, each data source also has it's own dedicated team of curators capable of productizing data sources.

That kind of thing is simply out of reach for most organizations.

Re: U.S. universities, rich in data, struggle to capture its value, study finds

#13
post #9
post #4

This is the type of article that makes me wonder: "therefore, what?" Yes, absolutely, universities are awash in data they do little to anything with outside of hyperfocused laboratories. I wonder if having central data management groups would be an enabler or a bottleneck, however.

Therefore they can’t optimize anything. They have 0 visibility into any of the operations and therefore can’t derive any insights or install controls. They have no idea if: Some professors more effective teachers than others. Which days students buy more food. Whether taking a given prerequisite leads to better mastery of advanced material. If additional spend is correlated with better student outcomes. For people in…

I didn't go to a prestigious US university but even mine had all this data and used it. In tech we like to think we are the only ones to "get" data. We are not.

Teaching outcomes are evident from exam results, grants won, papers published etc and are routinely used to determine promotions, staffing and more. Food/footfall etc are monitored and predicted by the private catering companies on campus. Budget reviews are comprehensive and require yearly and greater analysis of university performance on a per department basis. All that doesn't even include competitive processes like ranking tables for universities, applications for grants, participation in international research groups etc etc.

Re: U.S. universities, rich in data, struggle to capture its value, study finds

#16

There's a troubling tone behind this article. It's a prophecy that demands to be fulfilled. Starting with the premise "Data is useful", it proceeds to pick at all the ways we've failed to make it useful... and we're damned well going to make it useful if it kills us! Maybe, just maybe (for those that dabble in the sceptical, explanatory game we call science) it might be that "bare data" has little use within certain…

There's a cost/benefit curve here.

Having data can undeniably be useful. The question is, how much ROI does the insights in the data provide, relative to the cost to build the organizational infrastructure capable of extracting these insights?

And there's a bootstrapping problem, because often it's hard to calculate the potential ROI without actually going through the work of building the infrastructure to process the data.

Re: U.S. universities, rich in data, struggle to capture its value, study finds

#17

There's a troubling tone behind this article. It's a prophecy that demands to be fulfilled. Starting with the premise "Data is useful", it proceeds to pick at all the ways we've failed to make it useful... and we're damned well going to make it useful if it kills us! Maybe, just maybe (for those that dabble in the sceptical, explanatory game we call science) it might be that "bare data" has little use within certain…

The old “solution looking for a problem” problem.

Re: U.S. universities, rich in data, struggle to capture its value, study finds

#18
post #9
post #4

This is the type of article that makes me wonder: "therefore, what?" Yes, absolutely, universities are awash in data they do little to anything with outside of hyperfocused laboratories. I wonder if having central data management groups would be an enabler or a bottleneck, however.

Therefore they can’t optimize anything. They have 0 visibility into any of the operations and therefore can’t derive any insights or install controls. They have no idea if: Some professors more effective teachers than others. Which days students buy more food. Whether taking a given prerequisite leads to better mastery of advanced material. If additional spend is correlated with better student outcomes. For people in…

> They have no idea if: Some professors more effective teachers than others.

What are you even talking about? Literally every course at most universities end with an evaluation. Obviously, there are other problematic ways to measure effectiveness (publications). How much that data gets used is another question and varies widely by institution. “People in tech businesses” love to exaggerate the quality of the data they have and its usefulness, hence the Subprime Attention Crisis that is rapidly eroding their cash on hand as the Fed’s cheap money and QE dries up.

Re: U.S. universities, rich in data, struggle to capture its value, study finds

#20
post #4

This is the type of article that makes me wonder: "therefore, what?" Yes, absolutely, universities are awash in data they do little to anything with outside of hyperfocused laboratories. I wonder if having central data management groups would be an enabler or a bottleneck, however.

I run a centralized data and analytics team at a large, online university that primarily serves adult learners. I’ve been responsible for our data and analysis for 10 years.

I think this article rings true for most universities, but for some, like mine, we’ve had unified systems for the last 20 years. While that’s been helpful in a lot of ways, the primary thing we’re looking for - helping students graduate and get better jobs than they have today - is surprisingly challenging. Adult learners often fail to finish school for a variety of reasons, most of which aren’t academic and often can’t easily be forecast using all available data.

Unifying data sources or mining them further doesn’t solve student health issues, childcare, jugging work responsibilities with school, etc.

What’s more, universities are slow-moving, heavily bureaucratic, and highly regulated. So even when we have good ideas to relieve burden those often come head to head with accreditation rules, financial aid regulations.

In my opinion, for my students at least, data is the least of our problems.

Post reply on HN