Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer? • Hacker News Board

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#421

Post by xabotage » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

remarkEon wrote: post #271

xabotage wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do civilizations need to be built to the honor of something? I see plenty of art and architecture created independent of any mythical deity. I can't remember the last time I listened to a popular or well-renowed song that was religious-themed. Humans create and appreciate art all the time without it. > Attendance at TLM is increasing, not decreasing. Unclear what you mean by "TLM" but church attendance at least i…

>Why do civilizations need to be built to the honor of something? Which civilization has been built in honor of nothing? >Unclear what you mean by "TLM" but church attendance at least in the US is decreasing. TLM = Traditional Latin Mass.[1] [1] https://www.crisismagazine.com/opinion/the-growth-of-the-lat...

> Which civilization has been built in honor of nothing?

It turns out, civilizations are built to serve the purpose of human existence, not to venerate mythical deities. You must be confusing them with churches, temples, synagogues, etc.

> https://www.crisismagazine.com/opinion/the-growth-of-the-lat...

Relevant quote: "TLM-attending Catholics still make up a very small minority in the Church ... only 4% of parishes offer even one TLM on a regular (although not necessarily weekly) basis"

Not to mention, that is explicitly tagged as an opinion piece from a pro-Catholic publication.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#422

Post by giantg2 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 6:07 PM UTC

syzarian wrote: post #373

giantg2 wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really true. Sure, some experiences require a car. But there are tons of things that don't, even in more isolated areas. When I lived in a fairly rural neighborhood, there weren't tons of kids, but one or two families typically. You learned how to get along with them and become friends. You could go anywhere in the neighborhood if you told your parents. You could even ride your bike on trails to the local college…

Rural areas are not typical in terms of where most kids live and grow up. Explaining how things are in rural parts of the country is not a valid counter point. In large parts of the country walking has more or less become criminalized and discouraged. I’m talking about areas where a large percentage of people live. We have also criminalized giving kids autonomy. https://www.texaspolicy.com/lets-not-criminalize-parent…

I'm not talking about truly rural areas. I'm talking about suburbs and developments where a significant number of children live. Living in town is in fact suburban or even urban depending on the density.

Honestly the walking thing is BS. CA was the last hold out. I believe all states now take the reasonable approach of it only being a crime if you impede traffic, or if you choose to walk in the stret when there is a sidewalk available.

Yes, there are parenting laws that are overbearing. This is not an urban vs rural thing given that those laws cover both areas (varies by state).

The biggest factor is mindset. Kids can have varying levels of autonomy depending on a number of factors. Not having a car only prevents autonomy for those who lack imagination.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#423

Post by giantg2 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 6:08 PM UTC

Atheros wrote: post #397

theshrike79 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Calling the cops on an unattended child" is so very HOA-cul-de-sac American that it's hard to even fathom for a non-American. Over here (in the Nordics) kids walk/bike to school every day. In Finland the limit is 5km IIRC, after that you get a taxi or bus ride. Kids travel alone to their hobbies, again by walking, biking or public transport. I do use Apple's Find My on my offspring, but only to see how much of a war…

"Cops called on unattended child" doesn't actually happen very often. It makes the news in the U.S. specifically because it is rare.

This. It's not usual. However, it is still a risk in some areas.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#424

Post by hxugufjfjf » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 6:12 PM UTC

mkl wrote: post #317

kmlx wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> loose since a few years ago i’ve noticed a trend where people write “loose” (not firmly or tightly fixed in place; detached or able to be detached. "a loose tooth") instead of “lose” (be deprived of or cease to have or retain (something). "I've lost my appetite") does anyone know what’s going on?

And "it's" instead of "its", "you're" and "they're" instead of "your" and "their", "weary" instead of "wary". Lots more people seem to be making these same mistakes.

"try and think" "would of" "could of" - english native speakers 2022

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#425

Post by xabotage » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 6:12 PM UTC

williamtrask wrote: post #295

xabotage wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't help the poor as a hobby or because I was told to. I help the poor because I have compassion and empathy. Animals also demonstrate these same pro-social behaviors, and I'm pretty sure none of them are Jewish or Hindu.

I think the big question here is “why do you and I have compassion and empathy when many (many!) in human history have not?” Related: do animals act pro-socially because of rational scientific rigour or because they blindly inherit behaviours from their peers/ancestors?

Empathy is a survival strategy that benefits society as a whole whereas sociopathy is a survival strategy that benefits the individual. Humans are complex and diverse enough to display both sets of behaviors within the population.

I thought it should be fairly obvious that social instincts are "blindly inherited," I can't imagine why you think that any institution, scientific or religious, would need to manufacture them.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#426

Post by watwut » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 6:18 PM UTC

ido wrote: post #348

watwut wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that is the thing - in Germany or Switzerland 6 years old go to and from school unsupervised. The expectation is that they can in fact play alone on the street.

Do you have 6 year old in Germany today or are you talking about your own childhood? My 6 year old went to school on his own a few times and he was the only kid in his class to do so. He now no longer does as the teacher scared my wife into thinking it's dangerous to have him cross the street on his own (it's a small street and the entire way is 5 minutes walk). I talked with my wife and we do want him to start going…

I have friends and relatives in Germany and in Switzerland. This was standard and recommended by school in Germany.

In Switzerland, going alone started even sooner - at 5. But, the school was assigned in such a way that kid did not had to cross bigger road, kids had reflexive vests and there is regular back to school campaign targetted at drivers with "inexperienced kids on road" message.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#427

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 6:20 PM UTC

odessacubbage wrote: post #419

lotsofpulp wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of US suburbs have roads with 3 lanes in each direction. Then you add one or two left turn lanes at the intersection and a shoulder/bike lane, and you get to an 80ft+ crossing easily. All the infrastructure is built for cars and cars only. All the businesses and places for kids to go will be along these huge roads. This is an example of what is commonly built: https://maps.app.goo.gl/wpdBbQJggYrpjeNz8?g_st=ic Th…

i'm not sure many people would describe phoenix or tampa as suburban

Whatever we want to describe it as, the point is there are a decent number of kids that live in places with roads like these.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#428

Post by watwut » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 6:33 PM UTC

jonp888 wrote: post #309

watwut wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that point is overstated. The EU universities provide housing to students too and it is not that massively different, except Greek life. And I swear overwhelming majority of these comics comes from frats who are in power play against university. Every time I dug into specific issues, it turns out being just a bunch of manipulative claims.

But is it not common to force students, as a condition of attending lectures, to live in university housing, and to eat university provided meals? And it is not the case that university housing comes with "advisers" who ensure you are living in an approved way? (And for some bizarre reason you cannot have your own bedroom, you have to share - a last ditch effort to obstruct pre-marital sex?) In the EU anything not as…

Inability to have own bedroom is quite normal, single bedrooms are expensive.

Afaik, mandatory dorm living is rare, but again that is rare in America too. Most American students attend local state schools. Students eating meals made by school incredibly normal and incredibly traditional - it is not some kind of new development. Both in EU and America.

There are employees responsible for dorms in Europe too. The rules wary between place to place, so you would need to be more concrete regarding what "rules about how to live" you have in mind. I have seen rules about visitors, noise, time when visitors come etc. In America you have additional rules about alcohol, cause their legal underage is 21, compared with Germany 16. And this is largely legal requirement.

There is no equivalence of Greek life where you pledge to live by fraternity or sorority rules, which tend to be quite expansive ... but oddly these are not framed this way .

> At least in Germany, housing, catering and sports facilities are usually in the hands of a seperate body so there is no incentive for the university to try to use their power over students to force their use.

Afaik, with exception of PE which does exists in EU too, students are not forced to use school sport facilities. They do use them cause they are available and free or cheap.

American schools have that bundled together and the prominent expensive ones are basically mini self sufficient cities. So yes, they are under one banner.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#429

Post by daveoc64 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 6:37 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #363

“Students talk about conflict like it’s this terrible thing,” Mallon said in an interview. “Is it that they’re afraid of [conflict], or are they lacking in experience?" It might also be that school and society has conditioned them to be this way. They've been told what feel about this subject. When I went to school, fights were fairly rare, but they did happen. Usually they were minor without any serious injuries. Yo…

>When I went to school, fights were fairly rare, but they did happen. Usually they were minor without any serious injuries. Your punishment was usually several detentions, saying you're sorry, and your parents punishing you at home. Now, the police get called. One mistake and your life may be ruined.

I have the opposite view to this.

Why is it generally OK (not just in the USA, but many other western countries) for any kind of crime at school to be handled in-house, and swept under the carpet, when if you did the same thing on the street/in the workplace you'd get in trouble with the police?

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#430

Post by silisili » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 6:39 PM UTC

dopeboy wrote: post #334

silisili wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noticed mostly the same. I still think it's a win, our kid seems much happier and more outgoing than a lot of others that end up over. Further, she tends to find friends with similar minded kids, I guess because they don't have much in common with someone glued to their phones. I've had to actually ban kids from our house for their shitty attitudes and/or social media addiction, which may or may not be related. I don…

I respect the heck out of that - it takes guts banning your kid’s friends. Curious - how did you carry this out? You told your child to stop inviting them or you asked the problematic kid’s parents?

I can remember two examples. One was wife's friend's kid. That was a very problematic child - cussing, bullying, making nasty tiktok vids, and often verbally abusing her mom in front of us all. That one was a little hairier but that kid would make my blood boil to the point of wanting to smack her mouth, we talked it over, and decided the friend nor the kid would be over again.

The other was a neighborhood kid, we just told ours she could still play with her, but not come over anymore. That one wasn't as bad, I just remember our daughter crying and coming in and telling us her friend didn't want to play anything and was just playing with her phone.