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Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

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Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#221

Post by rychco »

jasonhansel wrote: post #9

> Chentsova Dutton said America has an international reputation for prizing autonomy, but her study opened her eyes to a more complicated picture. American parents tend to be overprotective when children are young, acting as if kids are going to live at home for a long time, like parents do in Italy. Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college, like families do in Germany. The result…

The stereotypical American helicopter-parent/soccer-mom can be viewed as a direct result of poor zoning practices & the resulting suburban sprawl. A typical child is completely incapable of going anywhere without the guidance of a car-driving parent. It is unlikely, either on foot or bike, that they are able to get to school, get to/from sports practice, meet with friends, shop at local stores, run errands, have a part-time job, etc etc. No wonder they're too sheltered & unable to navigate independence: they've never even had the option of independence.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#222

Post by iopq »

anonzzzies wrote: post #134
olalonde wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's objectively false for almost any metric you can come up with. Maybe the problem is that media gives such distorted view of reality?

Outside the people on HN etc, aren’t people objectively worse off payment wise than in the 80s? Cannot buy houses and having to live with their parents? Sure we live longer and healthier (well, this is also mostly the well off people) and we have tremendous tech advancements, but isn’t everything owned by a few people? I have to pay monthly for my car seat warmer. Movies and music that I bought are removed without me…

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

actually very wrong, the real median household income is much higher

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#223

Post by xabotage »

Beaver117 wrote: post #207
xabotage wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There won't be an exact replacement because the circumstances that led to the community cannot (or rather, should not) be replicated. For the sake of the survival of the planet/species, I also don't think any institution based around magical thinking should fill the gap. Keep in mind that high-demand religions require a huge investment of time and money. Devoting even just a fraction of those resources to hobbies, ar…

Hobbies and art classes can't ever fill the void that religion left. We have no real solution to this problem

I somewhat agree, but I am optimistic that society will change in other ways to fill this gap. It need not be any single activity or institution.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#224

Post by s5300 »

yucky wrote: post #155
s5300 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> but damn if 20-somethings aren't emotionally fragile at a level the world has never seen before. And they're also all in therapy too and super in touch with their feelings and emotions which is supposed to help They’ve probably seen enough older people drink themselves to literal death, along with other types of deaths of despair, & make a conscious choice to not want to end up that way. Whether or not it will wor…

Fewer people are "drinking themselves to death" now than in previous generations, so that can't be it. Maybe the issue is that they literally have had it too good, and were too coddled, and now they can't handle regular life. If that's the case, what is the solution? Treat kids worse, make them face more adversity like previous generations did?

I really hope you’re being sarcastic but I genuinely cannot tell so I guess I’ll reply.

>>Fewer people are "drinking themselves to death" now than in previous generations, so that can't be it.

Do you believe that we do not live in an age (with social media) in which it is much easier for anybody growing up to see exponentially a more examples of things I’ve mentioned? Just because things may be trending down, there is near infinitely more exposure.

Kids used to see a town drunk they were told to stay away from & generally that they deserved their fate. Now they can go on any social media & find people who had full ride scholarships that had to drop out of a STEM PhD & now can’t even get their most basic of human needs met because of a long untreated disability or other medical issues. This may come as a surprise to you - but many younger people find that to be depressing as fuck & don’t see a point when they can easily meet the same fate.

Just personal data: everybody I know who was treated as you suggest at the end now no longer speaks with or interacts their parents, whom regularly post things on Facebook like “I don’t know why none of my kids talk to me I was so good to them you all know I was waaah”

I personally find this to be funny, but it’s probably not best for society at large. We should probably attempt to fix the underlying issue - which all too often seems to be, don’t treat your kids like shit - especially in the 21st century where it’s not hard to see there’s greener pastures to be experienced, even when estranged from family.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#225

Post by heavyset_go »

rychco wrote: post #221
jasonhansel wrote: post #9

> Chentsova Dutton said America has an international reputation for prizing autonomy, but her study opened her eyes to a more complicated picture. American parents tend to be overprotective when children are young, acting as if kids are going to live at home for a long time, like parents do in Italy. Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college, like families do in Germany. The result…

The stereotypical American helicopter-parent/soccer-mom can be viewed as a direct result of poor zoning practices & the resulting suburban sprawl. A typical child is completely incapable of going anywhere without the guidance of a car-driving parent. It is unlikely, either on foot or bike, that they are able to get to school, get to/from sports practice, meet with friends, shop at local stores, run errands, have a pa…

A deviation from this that I've seen are apartment complexes near town centers, where kids rarely have to travel via car to visit friends, go to a park, go to a store, go to school, etc.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#226

Post by heavyset_go »

OJFord wrote: post #100
jasonhansel wrote: post #9

> Chentsova Dutton said America has an international reputation for prizing autonomy, but her study opened her eyes to a more complicated picture. American parents tend to be overprotective when children are young, acting as if kids are going to live at home for a long time, like parents do in Italy. Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college, like families do in Germany. The result…

> Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college Except American children away from home 'for college' are still exactly 'children', home with different parents. The culture of halls and canteens and the way it's funded is much more 'provided for you' than 'you're providing for yourself now'. I don't get the sense (from NA undergrads I've known, film, etc.) that much learning to cook go…

We used to joke that living in certain dorms was like going to sleepaway summer camp, down to the camp leaders, activities, responsibilities, living arrangements, expectations, systems etc.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#227

Post by nradov »

dheera wrote: post #17

I mean, no shit, when it costs $2000/month for a jail cell of a bedroom in the only handful of places that actually have jobs, and your workplace doesn't have an office yet they don't pay for the rent to create a proper home office that isn't your bedroom, AND you don't have much money left over for your medical bills that insurance doesn't pay, and you're expected to work evenings and weekends and put on-call so you…

There are jobs in places like Nashville and Cleveland. And you can find a decent apartment for less than $2000/month.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#228

Post by heavyset_go »

granshaw wrote: post #216
lostmsu wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my sample of 1 young adults no longer fight to be treated like grown-ups. Moreover, don't seem to want that in the first place.

I find this pretty interesting - does it go hand in hand with younger generations seeing no hope for their future, whether it be climate change, being financially stable, having a fulfilling life, finding a partner?

I mean, housing markets have ensured that they will live at home for longer periods of time and may never be able to own, or even rent a place by themselves.

Same thing goes for starting families, the costs are insane and even if you have kids, you will barely see them in order to just pay for their childcare itself. Good luck if you can't afford health insurance and care, either.

The opportunities to do "adult things" are pricing out pretty much everyone except the adult children of high earners or the wealthy.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#229

Post by xabotage »

remarkEon wrote: post #179
xabotage wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There won't be an exact replacement because the circumstances that led to the community cannot (or rather, should not) be replicated. For the sake of the survival of the planet/species, I also don't think any institution based around magical thinking should fill the gap. Keep in mind that high-demand religions require a huge investment of time and money. Devoting even just a fraction of those resources to hobbies, ar…

Humans have tried "we believe in nothing", throughout history, and yet ... I see no Cathedrals, no beautiful songs, no art, no science, no entire civilizations built to the honor of ... nothing. >which is why people are leaving it. Attendance at TLM is increasing , not decreasing.

Why do civilizations need to be built to the honor of something? I see plenty of art and architecture created independent of any mythical deity. I can't remember the last time I listened to a popular or well-renowed song that was religious-themed. Humans create and appreciate art all the time without it.

> Attendance at TLM is increasing, not decreasing.

Unclear what you mean by "TLM" but church attendance at least in the US is decreasing. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decli...

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#230

Post by sidlls »

lostmsu wrote: post #208
this_user wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European, US colleges/universities seem more like boarding schools. Here, no university would think that they have any business interfering with students' personal lives or anything they do outside a lecture hall, because they are considered adults. More broadly speaking, there seems to be a tendency in current US culture of infantilising young adults. I have repeatedly seen people in their early 20s referred to…

From my sample of 1 young adults no longer fight to be treated like grown-ups. Moreover, don't seem to want that in the first place.

My sample of 1: I’m (45) dating a younger person (25). In some ways he’s much more mature than my friend group was at his age, but in many ways not. It’s been fascinating to see what his expectations are. His other friends are slightly older (late 20s/early 30s) and all of them still party and do shit me and my friend groups stopped by our junior/senior university years. They just seem to have different expectations of what life is supposed to be like.
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