South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths' • Hacker News Board

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#101

Post by starkd » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:47 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #72

nibbleshifter wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same argument can be made for becoming a regular at a bar, lol.

The strength of the religious congregations is that they have a built-in forcing function that drives a regular attendance and brings families and individuals together. You must go to avoid hell, drives more attendance than going to avoid possible, future loneliness. I am an ardent atheist, but this aspect of religion makes me wish I too was delusional.

I completely understand your point. But you also have to realize that belief is also a choice, not just a factual agreement on reality. It may surprise you to learn that many of those church attendees are not 100% in agreement. They too have doubts. They choose to believe it for the community. Or the alternative is just too bleak for them.

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#102

Post by goodpoint » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:48 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #96

seydor wrote: post #2

This is a situation that will affect too many men worldwide as they are more likely to live single / be childless. The solution is to have communities or networks of people built explitictly around the idea of caring for others.

It’s called kinship networks built around people with blood ties. In tens of thousands of years nobody has figured out any stronger bond.

That's plain false. A lot of cultures treated relationships between mentor and student or friends or army comrades as more important than family.

The extreme focus on nuclear family is very recent, less than 200 years.

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#103

Post by acdha » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:48 PM UTC

leeroyjenkins11 wrote: post #24

tshaddox wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some examples of proposed solutions that the progressive left would oppose?

Encouraging people to marry and have committed monogamous relationships. Create a stigma to encourage people to only have sex inside of committed marriage relationships so when they get older the have a lasting relationship with someone. Also it's would help killing the sex trade as a young man will pe willing to pay for it via websites or in person, but don't form those long term relationships before it's too late.

> Encouraging people to marry and have committed monogamous relationships

Who told you that “the progressive left” opposes that? The major marriage-related shifts in the last century were expanding marriage benefits to everyone (interracial, homosexual) and opposition was distinctly right-wing.

Now, perhaps this was code for rolling back equal rights so more women would be pressured to enter into or remain in unsatisfactory marriages but as we saw that’s a recipe for more rather than less unhappiness.

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#104

Post by lern_too_spel » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:53 PM UTC

Mistletoe wrote: post #33

dandare wrote: post #3

As with any male-specific problem, the progressive left will blame it on patriarchy and oppose any solution.

Just so we are clear here, are you suggesting we reinstate the patriarchy so that more women are forced into marriage with men they hate so that less lonely men will be found badly decomposed?

GP thinks we should go back to religions that teach people to have as many kids as possible and to subjugate women, as they do in conservative countries. He didn't get the memo that the fertility rate in UAE is now 1.37.

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#105

Post by starkd » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:54 PM UTC

throwawaysleep wrote: post #92

nemothekid wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These christian-adjacent solutions seem completely bizarre to me. They smell like solutions that have been worked backwards from ideology than actual data. South Korea is a christian nation; forget prostitution, even pornography is banned in South Korea. South Korea, while being largely agnostic (~49%), is largely a christian nation by largest sect. If your prescriptions worked, South Korea would be a poster child fo…

The monogamy argument is basically to force women into relationships with these men rather than using their current choice to not marry men they find undesirable.

Who is being forced into relationships with these men? How undesirable could they be having slept with them at least once?

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#106

Post by the_doctah » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:55 PM UTC

dandare wrote: post #3

As with any male-specific problem, the progressive left will blame it on patriarchy and oppose any solution.

The destruction of the nuclear family and traditional family values finally rears its ugly head.

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#107

Post by Apocryphon » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 4:57 PM UTC

lern_too_spel wrote: post #104

Mistletoe wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so we are clear here, are you suggesting we reinstate the patriarchy so that more women are forced into marriage with men they hate so that less lonely men will be found badly decomposed?

GP thinks we should go back to religions that teach people to have as many kids as possible and to subjugate women, as they do in conservative countries. He didn't get the memo that the fertility rate in UAE is now 1.37.

Wonder how much of that is propped up by immigrant workers, as it is in the States.

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#108

Post by Apocryphon » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 5:01 PM UTC

the_doctah wrote: post #106

dandare wrote: post #3

As with any male-specific problem, the progressive left will blame it on patriarchy and oppose any solution.

The destruction of the nuclear family and traditional family values finally rears its ugly head.

The nuclear family was already a postwar, industrial era, departure from traditional family values. Traditional societies almost universally prioritize multigenerational households.

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#109

Post by the_doctah » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 5:01 PM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #39

rabuse wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Controversial take, but the reinstitution of gender roles.

So if we just force enough people to do your bidding without question, then your life will be easier and happier. The reason there are lots of lonely men out there is because they self-radicalize themselves on garbage ideology like this, and it becomes impossible for them to form relationships or integrate into society.

They self-radicalize themselves on the "garbage" ideology that there are two genders? The prevailing sentiment of the rest of the world outside of a segment of western liberals hell bent on changing everyone else?

Re: South Korea's middle aged men are dying 'lonely deaths'

#110

Post by throwawaysleep » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

the_doctah wrote: post #106

dandare wrote: post #3

As with any male-specific problem, the progressive left will blame it on patriarchy and oppose any solution.

The destruction of the nuclear family and traditional family values finally rears its ugly head.

Not really. Many men are just downright unpleasant to know, yet alone have relationships with. The ugly head was when women were forced into relationships with these men.