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Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?

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Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?

#141

Post by canadianfella »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #132
kukkeliskuu wrote: post #103

I would ask the Tarot reader if he/she believes he/she is telling a fact or an opinion. First would make him/her liable, but second would probably hurt their business. Tarot cards are very interesting by the way. Jung’s archetypes are based on major arcana cards, and as most personality tests (such as MBTI) are based on Jung’s theories, actually the HR department is kind of playing Tarot when they make you take perso…

As someone who reads Tarot for friends, and may do so professionally in the new year, it depends a lot on the reading and the type of reading. Any reading that offers advice is opinion, but some opinions should be stated with more confidence than others. Given identical cards I might tell one person "Get out, he'll hurt you if you stay!" and another "I'm not sure this relationship is right for you, if you stay there'…

[dead]

Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?

#142

Post by revolvingocelot »

alkonaut wrote: post #108
sschueller wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can a society function like that when any wealthy person can just sue you for saying anything?

I think that you said “any wealthy person” is telling. That you expect that the law is a tool available to the wealthy. Why would it be like that? As for the defamation itself, it’s no more “anything” that can be defamatory even though there is no requirement of falsehood. The intent to defame is still required. Most publications will fail that test (any journalism/public interest etc).

"If you're a single-digit millionaire like Hulk Hogan, you have no effective access to our legal system." -- Peter Thiel [0]

[0] https://theintercept.com/2016/10/31/trump-fan-peter-thiel-sa...

Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?

#143

Post by 082349872349872 »

ummonk wrote: post #12
mbg721 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(It's Will Robinson.) This sounds like a Perry Mason episode...either the tarot reading has some kind of observable truth, in which case it is treated as a fact, or it's just made-up nonsense, in which case it is opinion.

Even if it's treated as fact, it has to be false. Has she lied about what cards she saw in the tarot reading?

But that's tptacek's original point: what if she saw a "3 of Cups", and said "3 of Cups means that Professor X did Y (in the Conservatory)".

Is that an opinion (her interpretation of what the card means) or a lie (because it's highly unlikely there's any system in which that card could possibly lead to that interpretation)?

Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?

#144

Post by willcipriano »

082349872349872 wrote: post #110
kukkeliskuu wrote: post #103

I would ask the Tarot reader if he/she believes he/she is telling a fact or an opinion. First would make him/her liable, but second would probably hurt their business. Tarot cards are very interesting by the way. Jung’s archetypes are based on major arcana cards, and as most personality tests (such as MBTI) are based on Jung’s theories, actually the HR department is kind of playing Tarot when they make you take perso…

Second doesn't seem to have hurt Fox News' business. > Fox News seeks dismissal at the pleading stage on two constitutional grounds. First, it asserts that Mr. Carlson’s statements on the December 10, 2018, episode of his show are constitutionally protected opinion commentary on matters of public importance and are not reasonably understood as being factual. ==== Can a statement made by an LLM be defamatory? "Ancient…

MSNBC used the same argument: https://www.rt.com/usa/489544-maddow-oan-lawsuit-not-news/

Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?

#145

Post by tptacek »

contravariant wrote: post #124
kukkeliskuu wrote: post #103

I would ask the Tarot reader if he/she believes he/she is telling a fact or an opinion. First would make him/her liable, but second would probably hurt their business. Tarot cards are very interesting by the way. Jung’s archetypes are based on major arcana cards, and as most personality tests (such as MBTI) are based on Jung’s theories, actually the HR department is kind of playing Tarot when they make you take perso…

If I understood the article correctly they can just weasel around the issue by saying the cards present a fact but that their interpretation of it is an opinion. Since the cards themselves are a fact an opinion on what they mean seems to be protected. As far as I can tell it is not considered defamation as long as someone doesn't claim or suggest that this opinion is based on anything other than a card reading, which…

It's not so much weaseling, so much as whether the normal audience for this speech would have interpreted it as disclosing facts. You can't just say "in my opinion, this professor stabbed a student to death" to shield yourself from liability. But you can say "in my opinion, this professor stabbed a student to death, because I can see that they have the beady eyes of a criminal"; the basis for your claim is clearly not some undisclosed fact you've learned about the murder, but rather your weird ideas about facial features.

Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?

#146

Post by driverdan »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #132
kukkeliskuu wrote: post #103

I would ask the Tarot reader if he/she believes he/she is telling a fact or an opinion. First would make him/her liable, but second would probably hurt their business. Tarot cards are very interesting by the way. Jung’s archetypes are based on major arcana cards, and as most personality tests (such as MBTI) are based on Jung’s theories, actually the HR department is kind of playing Tarot when they make you take perso…

As someone who reads Tarot for friends, and may do so professionally in the new year, it depends a lot on the reading and the type of reading. Any reading that offers advice is opinion, but some opinions should be stated with more confidence than others. Given identical cards I might tell one person "Get out, he'll hurt you if you stay!" and another "I'm not sure this relationship is right for you, if you stay there'…

It's almost 2023 and people still believe this nonsense. Humanity is doomed.

Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?

#147

Post by tptacek »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #137

So, if I randomly generate headlines of varying rabid mania, I am not liable for defamation because I know they are random rubbish, but I still get the ad revenue ? Isn't this the business model for all current online news sources .. It does feel however it ought to be illegal - much like pissing in the drinking water.

This is essentially the whole argument Jerry Falwell made when Larry Flynt ran a spot in Hustler "accusing" him of having sex with his mother in an outhouse. The Rehnquist court unanimously booted the case. The First Amendment ain't easy. This kind of shit is often the price we pay for it.

Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?

#148

Post by dcanelhas »

Whether facts exist in the natural world or some other realm e.g. a made-up email server, the æther, the spheres, etc. shouldn't matter. It's likely just easier to prove some to be false outright, based on the claimed storage medium and access method (e.g. a fact stored in the all-knowing mind of God, accessed through LSD-induced hallucinations).

Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?

#149

Post by borbulon »

kukkeliskuu wrote: post #103

I would ask the Tarot reader if he/she believes he/she is telling a fact or an opinion. First would make him/her liable, but second would probably hurt their business. Tarot cards are very interesting by the way. Jung’s archetypes are based on major arcana cards, and as most personality tests (such as MBTI) are based on Jung’s theories, actually the HR department is kind of playing Tarot when they make you take perso…

I like Tarot cards. IMO If you're going to cards to get a Truth, you're going about it the wrong way. What they do do very well is give you another way of looking at the situation you're asking about, maybe things to consider that you hadn't before.

Like the question "how will my year unfold" isn't right, it's more like "what should I keep in mind this year?"

They're also good as a creative game, in the vein of Burroughs' cut-up method, which David Bowie used and said about it "What I’ve used it for, more than anything else, is igniting anything that might be in my imagination. It can often come up with very interesting attitudes to look into." You can use Tarot cards the same way.

Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?

#150

Post by brodouevencode »

Ken has interesting views, especially on free speech and what qualifies as such, and his relationship with Twitter (yes, a hot topic) and its users are especially interesting because he frequently and consistently contradicts and undermines himself. Unfortunately, or fortunately for him, he prunes his Twitter timeline so the examples aren't there anymore. So take what I said with a grain of salt, but it is true.
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