Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?
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Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?
1–10 of 231 posts
Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?
#2Fascinating: this is a defamation case that could conceivably turn on the conventional interpretation of specific tarot cards. You can make up a completely batshit but purely subjective reason to accuse someone of a crime, and the "subjective" part insulates you from liability, but if there's a shred of objectivity in the claim to latch onto, and you lied about it, you can be liable.
Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?
#3Really interesting analysis. I was about to post it too, but tptacek beat me to it.
Previous discussion of this case:
Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?
#4clearly a freedom of religion case
Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?
#5Fascinating: this is a defamation case that could conceivably turn on the conventional interpretation of specific tarot cards. You can make up a completely batshit but purely subjective reason to accuse someone of a crime, and the "subjective" part insulates you from liability, but if there's a shred of objectivity in the claim to latch onto, and you lied about it, you can be liable.
I don't have anywhere near the background expertise that you do, but surely there's some kind of "reasonable person" standard at some point, right? Or is that just for juries in criminal trials?
Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?
#6Fascinating: this is a defamation case that could conceivably turn on the conventional interpretation of specific tarot cards. You can make up a completely batshit but purely subjective reason to accuse someone of a crime, and the "subjective" part insulates you from liability, but if there's a shred of objectivity in the claim to latch onto, and you lied about it, you can be liable.
I don't have anywhere near the background expertise that you do, but surely there's some kind of "reasonable person" standard at some point, right? Or is that just for juries in criminal trials?
Danger, Will Robbins. I have zero expertise; I'm an annoying nerd like most of the rest of us. I just read lots of law blogs. :)
The post touches on this:
In determining whether the audience is likely to interpret a statement as one of fact or one of opinion or hyperbole, courts consider a viewpoint of an audience familiar with the speaker, the forum, and the circumstances.
The interesting thing here --- and this is useful for HN, which sometimes has very weird ideas of what constitutes defamation --- is that opinions can't be defamatory. You need to be able to trace a defamation claim back to a damaging revelation of a false fact. Here, the root of the damaging claim is a Tarot reading, which is what makes this case spicy.
Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't have anywhere near the background expertise that you do, but surely there's some kind of "reasonable person" standard at some point, right? Or is that just for juries in criminal trials?
Danger, Will Robbins. I have zero expertise; I'm an annoying nerd like most of the rest of us. I just read lots of law blogs. :) The post touches on this: In determining whether the audience is likely to interpret a statement as one of fact or one of opinion or hyperbole, courts consider a viewpoint of an audience familiar with the speaker, the forum, and the circumstances. The interesting thing here --- and this is…
(It's Will Robinson.) This sounds like a Perry Mason episode...either the tarot reading has some kind of observable truth, in which case it is treated as a fact, or it's just made-up nonsense, in which case it is opinion.
Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?
#8I’m confused by the idea that “Professor Scofield plotted and ordered the murders” is a statement of opinion. It seems like a clear example of what I’d consider a factual claim; it’s objectively true or false based on what happened in the physical world. Why does the factualness of her reasons for speaking the claim affect whether the claim itself is defamatory?
Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?
#9He claims defamation requires a statement of fact rather than an opinion. This very much depends on the particular jurisdiction. Defamation does extend to opinions, especially unreasonable opinions, in many countries.
Re: Can a Tarot card reading be defamatory?
#10Saying someone is an idiot is an opinion, there is no standard for this claim to be proven true or false.
Saying that someone is a murderer is not an opinion, regardless of how you came to that conclusion, you are making a statement of fact.
The US justice model is seriously janky if you can accuse random people of being murderers, ruin their lives, and get away with it.
My opinion: whether your 'proof' comes from god, the tarot or a dream, if you can't provide verifiable evidence of your claim for a crime committed in the physical world, you either need to shut up or agree to face consequences, whether you really believe in your source or are just a liar should be irrelevant. That right should certainly not be more important than the lives you're ruining.