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A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

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Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#91

Post by michaelmrose »

galangalalgol wrote: post #60
michaelmrose wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of medicine isn't latest research as standard of care isn't a fast moving target its just attention to detail.

I'm not sure what you mean, but both a co-worker and a co-workers wife found that eliminating nightshades like the GP did, eliminated their need for medication as well. My wife has a different autoimmune disorder, and had good luck eliminating a different food. The autoimmune protocol is the name for the elimination regimen. There is actually a great deal of literature to back this up. But I believe diet doesn't ente…

You are unintentionally illustrating my point. We are aware of the perception that non-medical people believe there is a miracle cure to be found in everything from eliminating tomatoes to according to one enterprising individual drinking your own pee.

My wife naturally rarely eats nightshades and consumption has zero correlation with inflammation or RA. If it were as simple as not eating tomatoes everyone would be cured. Instead every person that deals with that who goes to specialists regularly, who deals with the negative side effects of the drugs that actually reduce inflammation and keep your insides and joints from being destroyed has heard countless fake cures.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#92

Post by betteryet »

psychphysic wrote: post #11
consumer451 wrote: post #3

I was diagnosed with arthritis at a very young age. This was likely due to (at least related to) snowboard straps being too tight around my left ankle. I hobbled every morning for an hour, then a couple hours, then half the day. One day I learned about modifying my diet to avoid inflammation. I greatly limited, but did not entirely eliminate, tomatoes and potatoes in my diet. The effects were literally life changing.…

It's worth drawing a thick distinction between rheumatoid (autoimmune) and osteoarthritis (worn out).

Even osteoarthritis is now understood to be mostly caused by inflammation rather than wear and tear.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUOlmI-naFs

- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=osteoarthritis+inflamm...

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#93

Post by objetovoador »

atombender wrote: post #90
objetovoador wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note that "leaky gut syndrome" is pseudoscience; there's no such thing recognized by the medical community. What is real is leaky gut, or intestinal permeability. This seems like oversubtle reasoning that cruelly dismisses legitimate suffering from an actual disease process. You seem to admit there's a convincing scientific basis. Leaky gut syndrome is pseudoscience but intestinal permeability is real? Ok. It seems…

There's a clear distinction. While leaky gut is a real medical term, it has been misused by people who believe it to be the cause of a multitude of ailments (for which the same community of course offers "detox" advice), with no scientific evidence. You can read more here: https://badgut.org/information-centre/a-z-digestive-topics/l... .

Well I've got confirmed dysbiosis (GBT) from overprescribed antibiotics and from my experience, and reading up in those communities you're so contemptuous about, I get the sense that gut dysfunction manifests in seemingly random ways, a whole constellation of weird symptoms. You just feel horrible, sometimes there's no clear cause and effect, it seems random.

I agree there is a lot of just blatant nonsense and maybe they do misuse leaky gut but I think the medical community has a habit of vilifying people who are suffering real problems. I can't tell you how many times I've had a real medical issue (be it a bacterial infection, virus, or most recently, gut dysbiosis) and my doctor blames it on anxiety and offers me lexapro.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#94

Post by dieselerator »

amelius wrote: post #7

Posted this (about externally stimulating the vagus nerve) a while back because it looked interesting: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201... I bought the equipment to try this myself (basically a TENS device and some electrodes), but have been too afraid to apply it :/

> I bought the equipment to try this myself

Cue the obligatory scene (42 seconds) from "Strange Brew" [0]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/embed/EojzfxXGxtE?start=4064&end=410...

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#95

Post by ekianjo »

Raidion wrote: post #65
ekianjo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm for tomatoes. Definitely worth a try if you suffer from arthritis.

Rheumatoid or osteoarthritis?

Rheumatoid. For osteoartritis as far as I know there is not much you can do because the damage is already done.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#96

Post by upsidesinclude »

inthepipe wrote: post #88
upsidesinclude wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflammation is part of the immune response. It is beneficial when wounded and that's when the local body should become inflamed. Chronic inflammation is not beneficial. You are conflating the two

I’m not conflating anything. You’re saying the inflammation is beneficial, but what you’re describing is really a “lesser of two evils” situation, e.g. it’s better to have inflammation than it is to bleed out from a wound. But the best thing would be not to get a wound in the first place.

Sure boss, you're right. I'm guessing you're right a lot

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#97

Post by michaelmrose »

objetovoador wrote: post #57
michaelmrose wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't what a meta analysis is. I'm not trying to be cruel but people know all sorts of things that aren't true based on insufficient evidence and weak correlation. I did this thing and got that result is extremely powerful for an individual but without controlling for other factors its hard to know if they are assigning credit to an irrelevant factor or one that was more specific to their situation and not gener…

> That isn't what a meta analysis is. I'm not trying to be cruel[...] That's why he didn't call it a meta-analysis but instead said "It’s more of a meta analysis in my mind of all the different studies and anecdotes I’ve osmoted over the years" It'd be one thing if he said all those things as some sort of scientific fact, but he very clearly qualified his statements as hypothetical conclusions informed by surveying l…

You want me to call a spade a spade. Meta analysis is an actual term of art in the sciences. People sharing folk wisdom about diet is mostly malarkey of between zero and dubious value spoken in a confident tone it doesn't deserve.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#98

Post by michaelmrose »

spirit557 wrote: post #80
guilamu wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but WHAT? Any citation to backup your claim? Please and thank you.

Omega-6 vegetable oils as a driver of coronary heart disease: the oxidized linoleic acid hypothesis https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6196963/ I like that one and it has good references. I could find more (Crisco and trans fats... duh) but I mean come on... Seed oils like canola oil are manufactured and did not exist before 1900. They're totally unnatural and heavily manufactured with solvents, preservativ…

This is interesting but a huge problem with dietary guidance is that the body and its processes are hugely complex and understanding evolves over time. A year after that was published the American Heart Association gives contradictory evidence. One could trivially spend one's entire life chasing emerging science and receive for your efforts zero benefit while people trivially ignore obvious and clear guidance on basic matters like diet, sleep, and exercise that is unambiguous.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/no-need-to...

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