What happens when babies are left to cry it out? • Hacker News Board

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#241

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 9:57 PM UTC

themaninthedark wrote: post #215

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are right and I'm just angry at the behavior toward co-sleeping. In the end, every family should do what fits them. My request is to stop blaming co-sleeping and accept it as a valuable option, same value as sleep training.

I understand, it is frustrating seeing people blame and reject things are useful just because they are not used tho them or are foreign to their culture. Part of the reason we co-slept is because my wife was breastfeeding and it would have been unfair for her to have to get up, leave the room to take care of the baby. Also, I am good at adapting and quickly learnt to sleep through hunger cries...so probably for the b…

Makes sense. I forgot about the problem with breastfeeding, since initially we were all in the same room and there was zero sleep, so it didn't matter much. By the time breastfeeding would have been annoying (for waking up), we were already co-sleeping.

Our first 2 weeks were really, really bad, with the first week being at 2 hours in total (that is 2 hours of sleep for 168 hours), after a month and a half she started sleeping with us.

The second one just slept with us from the beginning since knew all the tricks of it and worked really well the first time

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#242

Post by agumonkey » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 9:57 PM UTC

conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

After suffering extreme trauma, I have a different view on babies crying. Being heard and responded to is one existentially low level mental need. Touched too.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#243

Post by em-bee » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 9:58 PM UTC

jjulius wrote: post #206

afandian wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the commenter you replied to, but I am a parent. I see attachment as one of the most important aspects of human experience. Forcibly severing this is, in my opinion, emotional abuse.

>Forcibly severing this is, in my opinion, emotional abuse. When you think of parents letting their kid "cry it out", what do you picture? What is your understanding of the process? Edit: Seems the answer to my question is over here[1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34177882

i have been with friends who let their baby cry it out in the other room while the parents entertained guests. it did feel like emotional abuse.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#244

Post by lern_too_spel » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 9:58 PM UTC

conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

Hypothesis: the parent, by forcing themselves to sleep train, conditions themselves to ignore more of the infant's emotions; and the infant, observing no reaction to their emotions, learns the same behavior, leading to higher incidence of autism.

Typically (aside from some neurological disorders), there is an underlying reason for the infant to be crying. They could be hungry or wanting to urinate or defecate (many cultures begin potty training shortly after birth). This is frequent because their stomachs, intestines, and bladders are small. Figuring out what they want and responding is normal and has a long history of working, not just among humans but among all mammals with dependent young.

It's astonishing that some pop-parenting guide came along and said, "You don't have to figure out what the baby is crying about if they happen to be crying at night or if you are sleepy," and nobody stopped to wonder what night time had to do with it.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#245

Post by paganel » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 10:00 PM UTC

rspoerri wrote: post #79

jmnicolas wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even cats have wildly different personalities so I don't think sleep training human babies have anything to do with their personalities.

Did you sleep train the cats?

Not the OP and not sleep training, no need for that, but I did manage to poopy-train our cat, meaning he only takes a poo when we are awake. The same goes for when we are eating, he's not taking any poo during those times, either.

Pretty smart cat, if you ask me, he also managed to teach our dog to play certain kind of games between the two of them.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#246

Post by remote_phone » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 10:00 PM UTC

conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

The fact that you are getting enraged is a huge part of the problem. Keep your own morality to yourself and your own family. If you don’t want to use cry it out, then that’s your decision. The fact you project onto others is the problem and it’s none of your business.

Cry it out is effective and works wonders for families and it has no side effects, as mentioned in the article itself.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#247

Post by scotty79 » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 10:03 PM UTC

conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

On the other hand if infants were this fragile to be long term affected by something like that humanity would survive 3 generation tops.

At some point synaptic prunning comes and the child is rid of nearly all indignities it suffered up to that point.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#248

Post by zeroonetwothree » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 10:04 PM UTC

oskarpearson wrote: post #218

sanderjd wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing a 9-month-old spending 15 minutes calming themselves down before falling asleep to physical abuse is laughably absurd. A big problem with this "debate" is that people conjure images of newborn babies being left to cry for hours, when what is actually predominantly practiced is older infants 6-12 months old being allowed to cry for less than half an hour. After being fed and given a clean diaper and a safe p…

From the article: > For others, it can be hours of crying, even to the point of vomiting (common enough to be a frequent topic of conversation on sleep-training forums and addressed by baby sleep books including Ferber's The article also includes a reference to 2-3 hours.

It’s a spectrum between “spend 24/7 attached to a baby” and “ignore them all night”.

Everyone thinks that the position even 1% different from what they adopted is abhorrent.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#249

Post by mlboss » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 10:04 PM UTC

chinabot wrote: post #189

I find this interesting that human infants are the only ones to cry out and make lots of noise, it must have been recent historically as making yourself known to predators is generally not a good idea evolution wise.

Its mentioned in the article. Human brain at birth is not as mature as compared to other animals. Most of the animals can start walking after birth.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#250

Post by weakfortress » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 10:04 PM UTC

pnutjam wrote: post #178

andrewclunn wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SIDS risk being parents rolling on top of and crushing / asphyxiating the baby. We just gloss over most of this sort of death by calling it SIDS to avoid having to charge the parents with a crime.

I'm convinced most of the issues with rolling on babies is people who take medication or drink. Maybe I'm wrong. SIDS is totally different.

You would be wrong. I suppose it's anecdata but a member of my family who works in pedatrics sees this regularly unfortunately. Usually it's these new-age parents that think co-sleeping is somehow beneficial. You fall into a deep enough sleep, it takes almost no time at all to seriously injure or kill your child.

Frankly, co-sleeping with a baby is irresponsibility of the highest form. It may have worked for the GP but for every one that it works, another 100 show up to my family member's office or to the morgue. There's no conspiracy in why part of the "how to handle a baby" guidelines they give new parents is "never, ever, EVER co-sleep". Its far safer to assume that the new parent is not in the less-risky population and will in fact eventually cause their child's death.