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What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

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Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#161

Post by illegalsmile »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #136
jjtheblunt wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not regarding a human child, but my spouse thought leaving our rescue dog, still a youngster only a few months old, in a cage in another room overnight was somehow proper, which frankly incensed me as cruel and abusive nonsense, because it's not the way of the wild, not what any of us were evolved for. And I'd lived with and worked with rescue animals for decades, so felt strongly about this. (i put my foot down and…

Crate training is pretty normal and not sure why you feel so weird about it. Is it “the way of the wild” to keep the dog in your house?

I don't get it either. Our shelter dogs were always crated overnight since they weren't allowed in the bedrooms and they would go there when it was bed time with no problem. Occasionally they'd go to their crate to take naps or seek refuge there during storms. I guess if a dog willingly going into a crate to sleep while everyone else slept is cruel and abusive I don't know what they'd think about actual abuse. Our dogs lived long happy lives. Most dogs I know have a spot that's tight and cozy, maybe even covered, that they go to; crate or not. If you crate train with positive reinforcement it's a benefit for everyone IMO even if you don't make them sleep in there.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#162

Post by kqr »

loteck wrote: post #58

What we were trying to do was help the parents to teach the kids to self-soothe. So in effect, we weren't saying that they wouldn't wake. We were saying that they would wake, but they wouldn't have to signal their parents. They could go back down into the next sleep cycle. The conversations around sleep training are always rife with folks focusing on their own perceived risks, and the emotional guilt, that come with…

This is one thing I learned only in my third year as a parent. If I tell an adult "I'm worried you'll break that when you poke it so hard" I expect them to either argue to the contrary or stop poking it so hard.

For my children, they don't register what I've said until a few days (and attempts) later. It's virtually impossible to teach them something in the moment, it all falls into place later. Super frustrating and super fascinating.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#163

Post by lazide »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #149
Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I'm disagreeing with: there is less risk of the baby dying IN THE CRIB, but there isn't less risk of the baby dying overall, that's not assessed (and it would be very hard to prove), but the reality is just that. Then again, the risk factors of Co-sleeping are known and can be eliminated: put the bed on the floor, remove extra pillows, use light covers or no blankets, set the room temperature to something…

Sorry, but you’re wrong. Not only wrong, but confidently and smugly wrong. You think you know best but haven’t bothered to actually do any real research on this topic.

Not condoning, but at some point that's a necessary survival reflex.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#164

Post by afandian »

johndhi wrote: post #159
metabagel wrote: post #110

Having read "The Boy Who was Raised as a Dog", which goes into a fair amount of detail regarding attachment and attachment disorders, letting an infant "cry it out" strikes me as child abuse. Infants have no control over their environment, and crying is almost their only way to communicate. I'm not enthusiastic about sleep training either - the gradual, controlled removal of sleep time emotional support by the parent…

Do you have children?

Not the commenter you replied to, but I am a parent.

I see attachment as one of the most important aspects of human experience. Forcibly severing this is, in my opinion, emotional abuse.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#165

Post by jjtheblunt »

maximinus_thrax wrote: post #152
jjtheblunt wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not regarding a human child, but my spouse thought leaving our rescue dog, still a youngster only a few months old, in a cage in another room overnight was somehow proper, which frankly incensed me as cruel and abusive nonsense, because it's not the way of the wild, not what any of us were evolved for. And I'd lived with and worked with rescue animals for decades, so felt strongly about this. (i put my foot down and…

> because it's not the way of the wild Not to defend crate training, but potty training, walking your dog on a schedule, feeding it processed dog food and generally keeping a pet indoors is also not the way of the wild.

yep agree with all that too

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#166

Post by jjtheblunt »

Insanity wrote: post #154
jjtheblunt wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not regarding a human child, but my spouse thought leaving our rescue dog, still a youngster only a few months old, in a cage in another room overnight was somehow proper, which frankly incensed me as cruel and abusive nonsense, because it's not the way of the wild, not what any of us were evolved for. And I'd lived with and worked with rescue animals for decades, so felt strongly about this. (i put my foot down and…

Crate training is a good thing (imo) but should be done properly. Not just sticking them in a crate overnight in another room and ignoring them. Our dog is crate trained, which makes travelling with him way easier for example. (He is 1 year old now, so at night he just walks into his crate whenever he feels tired. We don’t have to put him in his crate anymore). You have to make sure they associate positive experience…

good point. we left her crate set up with door open, which she could use as a "fort", and she did like that for napping. i guessed partly in the sense she doesn't have to stay partially awake worrying about being stepped on.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#167

Post by silisili »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #123
metabagel wrote: post #110

Having read "The Boy Who was Raised as a Dog", which goes into a fair amount of detail regarding attachment and attachment disorders, letting an infant "cry it out" strikes me as child abuse. Infants have no control over their environment, and crying is almost their only way to communicate. I'm not enthusiastic about sleep training either - the gradual, controlled removal of sleep time emotional support by the parent…

Not regarding a human child, but my spouse thought leaving our rescue dog, still a youngster only a few months old, in a cage in another room overnight was somehow proper, which frankly incensed me as cruel and abusive nonsense, because it's not the way of the wild, not what any of us were evolved for. And I'd lived with and worked with rescue animals for decades, so felt strongly about this. (i put my foot down and…

Dogs are not 'way of the wild' creatures. Most, if not all, wouldn't even survive in the wild without human intervention.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#168

Post by trgn »

brink wrote: post #54
anon291 wrote: post #6

Part of this is that Americans have an obsession with babies sleeping in another room and in another bed. My family immigrated here and no one ever did that. Children sleep with their parents.

> have an obsession I'm so tired of the condescending tone that is usually taken for granted when talking about traditional American culture. Can we please stop this? It's just a cultural difference.

It's something I find very commendable of americans actually. Americans generally take unsolicited criticism and brash antagonizing language from foreigners quite well. Every american traveling abroad can attest (remember the post 9/11 years?!), and generally have dealt with civilly and with head raised.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#169

Post by jjtheblunt »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #136
jjtheblunt wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not regarding a human child, but my spouse thought leaving our rescue dog, still a youngster only a few months old, in a cage in another room overnight was somehow proper, which frankly incensed me as cruel and abusive nonsense, because it's not the way of the wild, not what any of us were evolved for. And I'd lived with and worked with rescue animals for decades, so felt strongly about this. (i put my foot down and…

Crate training is pretty normal and not sure why you feel so weird about it. Is it “the way of the wild” to keep the dog in your house?

common, yes. what wolves and coyotes do, sort of, during the day when out hunting, but not leaving their pups alone overnight, right?

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#170

Post by adamredwoods »

lars512 wrote: post #121
Patrol8394 wrote: post #104

My wife and I did not sleep trained our kids. They co-slept with us, they were happy we were able to sleep through the night. Eventually they transitioned into their own bed no problem. Our neighbors will let their baby cry like forever, it was excruciating and imo pointless.

My brother and his wife did not sleep train their boy and co-slept with him. They had endless issues with sleep that continued past 2y old, were constantly exhausted, and eventually alternated who slept with him. We sleep trained our boy, same age, had very few issues even from very young. Children are so different, from so early, it's not at all obvious what outcome for a particular kid is because of different strat…

LOL, every parent has a different set of anecdotes! We had sleeptime issues as well as a number of our friends. We did a gradual approach where we sat in a chair nearby the bed, then gradually moved the chair away, over about a week. Everything was fine after that.
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