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What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

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Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#151

Post by dragonwriter »

lazide wrote: post #31
anon291 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you and your spouse are of healthy weight and the mother breastfeeds all night and the bed is stripped of heavy bedding and pillows this is unlikely. I wish doctors would give parents this advice because what happens now is that many American parents will cosleep without admitting it and don't know what to do when they engage in it. In many traditional cultures, the baby is breastfed all night and the bed is strip…

Considering nearly zero Americans are of healthy weight right now (obesity rate over 42%), even if you don’t consider stress eating that often happens with a new baby - just limiting by healthy weight or not is going to bias any results towards a pretty small group of people.

> Considering nearly zero Americans are of healthy weight right now (obesity rate over 42%)

Apparently, “nearly zero” are mathematically literate, too.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#152

Post by maximinus_thrax »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #123
metabagel wrote: post #110

Having read "The Boy Who was Raised as a Dog", which goes into a fair amount of detail regarding attachment and attachment disorders, letting an infant "cry it out" strikes me as child abuse. Infants have no control over their environment, and crying is almost their only way to communicate. I'm not enthusiastic about sleep training either - the gradual, controlled removal of sleep time emotional support by the parent…

Not regarding a human child, but my spouse thought leaving our rescue dog, still a youngster only a few months old, in a cage in another room overnight was somehow proper, which frankly incensed me as cruel and abusive nonsense, because it's not the way of the wild, not what any of us were evolved for. And I'd lived with and worked with rescue animals for decades, so felt strongly about this. (i put my foot down and…

> because it's not the way of the wild

Not to defend crate training, but potty training, walking your dog on a schedule, feeding it processed dog food and generally keeping a pet indoors is also not the way of the wild.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#153

Post by cycrutchfield »

fallingfrog wrote: post #128

Human infants are not meant to sleep alone, and human parents are not meant to care for babies all by themselves- especially not one exhausted mother all on her own. Evolutionarily speaking we are supposed to be surrounded by extended family, who can hold the baby and give mom and dad a chance to sleep . It's just the cruelty of modern industrial society that makes people resort to such things as leaving a baby all a…

This line of reasoning is absurd. We do a lot of things we aren’t “meant” to do evolutionarily. Babies can and do sleep alone just fine. Sorry it didn’t work out in your case, but don’t try to appeal to Evolution to rationalize it to yourself.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#154

Post by Insanity »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #123
metabagel wrote: post #110

Having read "The Boy Who was Raised as a Dog", which goes into a fair amount of detail regarding attachment and attachment disorders, letting an infant "cry it out" strikes me as child abuse. Infants have no control over their environment, and crying is almost their only way to communicate. I'm not enthusiastic about sleep training either - the gradual, controlled removal of sleep time emotional support by the parent…

Not regarding a human child, but my spouse thought leaving our rescue dog, still a youngster only a few months old, in a cage in another room overnight was somehow proper, which frankly incensed me as cruel and abusive nonsense, because it's not the way of the wild, not what any of us were evolved for. And I'd lived with and worked with rescue animals for decades, so felt strongly about this. (i put my foot down and…

Crate training is a good thing (imo) but should be done properly. Not just sticking them in a crate overnight in another room and ignoring them.

Our dog is crate trained, which makes travelling with him way easier for example. (He is 1 year old now, so at night he just walks into his crate whenever he feels tired. We don’t have to put him in his crate anymore).

You have to make sure they associate positive experiences with it.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#155

Post by lazide »

dragonwriter wrote: post #151
lazide wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering nearly zero Americans are of healthy weight right now (obesity rate over 42%), even if you don’t consider stress eating that often happens with a new baby - just limiting by healthy weight or not is going to bias any results towards a pretty small group of people.

> Considering nearly zero Americans are of healthy weight right now (obesity rate over 42%) Apparently, “nearly zero” are mathematically literate, too.

Obesity is 'you're going to die an early death because you're overweight'. It is the polar opposite of a healthy weight, but there is a lot of red in the gap. You might not be aware of that? It's one of those uncomfortable truths no one likes talking about. Even Dr's won't usually mention it to patients.

73.6% of American Adults over 20 years old are overweight. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/obesity-adult-17-18/obe...

26.4% of the American population is not overweight. I didn't correlate to eating disorders resulting in people being under weight - I've seen a decent amount of that too. Probably 5 to maybe even 10%.

I'm struggling to see how that isn't a pretty select cohort that is a healthy weight, no?

Anecdotally, most Americans consider me lean and athletic - I'm a good 20 lbs overweight by reasonable historic standards, but not obese. The overton window has shifted a lot, but our bodies and what is healthy for us are no different.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#156

Post by realworldperson »

themaninthedark wrote: post #47
jbirer wrote: post #2

[flagged]

I don't know how much experience you have with babies, yes they cry for a reason. Sometimes that reason is they need/want something, sometimes it is because they are gassy and their stomach hurts. Sometimes it is because they are tired, in which case it may be preferential to help them learn that they should sleep when tired and not cry and keep themselves awake. Also you talk about parental selfishness. Parents have…

[dead]

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#157

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

lazide wrote: post #147
Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I'm aware, rolling over and suffocating is NOT SIDS. With SIDS, the cause is undetermined. This is also a weird presumption: go to bed when the kids go to sleep and wake up early. You get the same amount of sleep and a free morning. > SIDS: A disorder marked by the sudden and unexpected death of a healthy child who is younger than one year old, usually during sleep. The cause of sudden infant death syndrome…

'Unexplained' is a large portion of SIDS deaths. Folks trying to protect parents and the family from blame for 'preventable' deaths is also a thing. As SIDS is better understood, and categorization is changing (addressed in the paper I linked elsewhere) the graph showing proportions of accidental suffocation/strangulation during sleep is rising while SIDS is dropping - but both numbers are adding up to about the same…

Is this basically suggesting that all SIDS are essentially suffocation (or close to that?)

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#158

Post by wizzwizz4 »

maximinus_thrax wrote: post #152
jjtheblunt wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not regarding a human child, but my spouse thought leaving our rescue dog, still a youngster only a few months old, in a cage in another room overnight was somehow proper, which frankly incensed me as cruel and abusive nonsense, because it's not the way of the wild, not what any of us were evolved for. And I'd lived with and worked with rescue animals for decades, so felt strongly about this. (i put my foot down and…

> because it's not the way of the wild Not to defend crate training, but potty training, walking your dog on a schedule, feeding it processed dog food and generally keeping a pet indoors is also not the way of the wild.

> potty training, walking your dog on a schedule,

These are actually somewhat similar to wild dog behaviours. They usually have specific areas to poo, and they often have routines – albeit, not externally-enforced ones.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#159

Post by johndhi »

metabagel wrote: post #110

Having read "The Boy Who was Raised as a Dog", which goes into a fair amount of detail regarding attachment and attachment disorders, letting an infant "cry it out" strikes me as child abuse. Infants have no control over their environment, and crying is almost their only way to communicate. I'm not enthusiastic about sleep training either - the gradual, controlled removal of sleep time emotional support by the parent…

Do you have children?

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#160

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

themaninthedark wrote: post #129
Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or co-sleeping, where they don't cry before or after

I have two boys 9 and 3. Oldest co-slept with us until his brother was born so until 6yo, even now sometimes he wants to come back to our bed. The youngest we put in the same room as our oldest after about a year, he rarely wants to sleep with us. When they were co-sleeping with us, they would still wake up and cry at night from things other then hunger. Including, I rolled over into my parent and it surprised me so…

I think you are right and I'm just angry at the behavior toward co-sleeping.

In the end, every family should do what fits them.

My request is to stop blaming co-sleeping and accept it as a valuable option, same value as sleep training.

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