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What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

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Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#121

Post by lars512 »

Patrol8394 wrote: post #104

My wife and I did not sleep trained our kids. They co-slept with us, they were happy we were able to sleep through the night. Eventually they transitioned into their own bed no problem. Our neighbors will let their baby cry like forever, it was excruciating and imo pointless.

My brother and his wife did not sleep train their boy and co-slept with him. They had endless issues with sleep that continued past 2y old, were constantly exhausted, and eventually alternated who slept with him. We sleep trained our boy, same age, had very few issues even from very young.

Children are so different, from so early, it's not at all obvious what outcome for a particular kid is because of different strategies taken and what comes from their individual natures, or other aspects of their environment.

Co-sleeping's known to increase the SIDS risk, so it's another reason people are sometimes reluctant to do it, even if it would make the baby more comfortable.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#122

Post by sanderjd »

Patrol8394 wrote: post #104

My wife and I did not sleep trained our kids. They co-slept with us, they were happy we were able to sleep through the night. Eventually they transitioned into their own bed no problem. Our neighbors will let their baby cry like forever, it was excruciating and imo pointless.

I think parenting is the worst possible space for N=1 anecdotes. I have two sets of friends who did what you did and have never slept alone or through the night for coming up on five years. For our oldest, also coming up on five years, we did like one night of sleep training at 18 months and immediately started sleeping through the night like magic. For our youngest, we never had to do anything, he just always slept through the night no problem. All of these anecdotes mean nothing, just like yours. Parents need to experiment and figure out what works best for them and their kids, and everyone who isn't them needs to butt. out.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#123

Post by jjtheblunt »

metabagel wrote: post #110

Having read "The Boy Who was Raised as a Dog", which goes into a fair amount of detail regarding attachment and attachment disorders, letting an infant "cry it out" strikes me as child abuse. Infants have no control over their environment, and crying is almost their only way to communicate. I'm not enthusiastic about sleep training either - the gradual, controlled removal of sleep time emotional support by the parent…

Not regarding a human child, but my spouse thought leaving our rescue dog, still a youngster only a few months old, in a cage in another room overnight was somehow proper, which frankly incensed me as cruel and abusive nonsense, because it's not the way of the wild, not what any of us were evolved for. And I'd lived with and worked with rescue animals for decades, so felt strongly about this.

(i put my foot down and gave her run of the house so she was soothed to be with her (generalized) family, and she's been fantastic ever since. my spouse is still indignant about her plan being abandoned, but it proved the effective and healthy choice.)

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#124

Post by sanderjd »

darrmit wrote: post #12

I'm more interested in the long-term psychological effects of sleep training and how it affects a child's perception of "secure attachment" [1]. We sleep trained our oldest and did not our youngest and their personalities couldn't be more different. Of course, this may be entirely unrelated, but it's still something my wife and I have wondered about as we've learned more about it. [1] https://www.betterhelp.com/advic…

Oh come, there's like a billion variables in kids' personalities. My kids couldn't be more different from one another and we pretty much did all the same stuff with them.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#125

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #118
Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but I disagree with your statement about being way safe. Research doesn't account for what happens when baby is in the crib and it doesn't sleep. So sure, you might have avoided SIDS, but the baby might die because the parent fell asleep while standing with the baby in their arms. P. S. Again sorry for my tone, I'm super angry for how the entire medicine treats Co-sleeping like a horrific thing So the resear…

I don't think hypotheticals are very useful. A sleep deprived parent is a risk in any scenario. It's a moot point. The only point I was making is that it is generally agreed upon that a crib is safe for babies to sleep in. They can't fall out, get smothered, etc. Medicine treats co-sleeping horrifically because, by any measure, it's less safe. Few medical professionals will recommend, generally, anything associated w…

That's what I'm disagreeing with: there is less risk of the baby dying IN THE CRIB, but there isn't less risk of the baby dying overall, that's not assessed (and it would be very hard to prove), but the reality is just that.

Then again, the risk factors of Co-sleeping are known and can be eliminated: put the bed on the floor, remove extra pillows, use light covers or no blankets, set the room temperature to something you can sleep well while naked, no drugs/alcohol.

There is also a whole thing about the skin-to-skin sleep providing to the baby regulation for breathing and circulation (no idea about the scientific base of it, but it was told by doctors, so I assume there is some), which seems to help for other issues too, as well as being a known way to prevent SIDS.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#126

Post by fn-mote »

hnuser847 wrote: post #108
mrsubletbot wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I co-sleep with our kids (2 & 4). I get just about a full sleep every night. If the kids wake up I imagine it's much less work to roll over and cuddle with them as opposed to getting out of bed, going to a separate room and then comforting them. Co-sleeping gets bonus points for giving me just a little extra sweet time with my kids, because before I know it they will be older and wanting their own space.…

We started co-sleeping with our son at first wake at around 8 months, and have been doing that continuously for the past 7 months or so (basically he sleeps with us in bed between 2 and 6ish AM). I've enjoyed the arrangement but my wife is tired of it, due to getting kicked and punched all night long. On top of that, she's 32 weeks pregnant and really needs the sleep. Does your wife share your enthusiasm for co-sleep…

> my wife is tired of it, due to getting kicked and punched all night

I hope this isn't patronizing. If you want it to work you could put the little one on your side of the bed instead of in the middle. A mattress on the floor next to you can make rolling out of bed a non-event.

Or sleep on a futon / remove the bed stand. There are many variations that work.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#127

Post by andrewclunn »

lars512 wrote: post #121
Patrol8394 wrote: post #104

My wife and I did not sleep trained our kids. They co-slept with us, they were happy we were able to sleep through the night. Eventually they transitioned into their own bed no problem. Our neighbors will let their baby cry like forever, it was excruciating and imo pointless.

My brother and his wife did not sleep train their boy and co-slept with him. They had endless issues with sleep that continued past 2y old, were constantly exhausted, and eventually alternated who slept with him. We sleep trained our boy, same age, had very few issues even from very young. Children are so different, from so early, it's not at all obvious what outcome for a particular kid is because of different strat…

The SIDS risk being parents rolling on top of and crushing / asphyxiating the baby. We just gloss over most of this sort of death by calling it SIDS to avoid having to charge the parents with a crime.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#128

Post by fallingfrog »

Human infants are not meant to sleep alone, and human parents are not meant to care for babies all by themselves- especially not one exhausted mother all on her own. Evolutionarily speaking we are supposed to be surrounded by extended family, who can hold the baby and give mom and dad a chance to sleep. It's just the cruelty of modern industrial society that makes people resort to such things as leaving a baby all alone. Future generations are going to see these practices as tragic and the fact that we don't support new parents leads to stressed out, insecure babies, or worse.

Here's the truth: nothing works. They just eventually grow out of it. When they are a year or two old, you can start transitioning to having them sleep by themselves.

I really did try to sleep train my youngest.. I would set a timer and not let her go too long. I really tried. Once I went and picked her up after 15 minutes, and her little voice had grown hoarse. She was covered in sweat and shaking and she just collapsed against me when I picked her up. Her tiny body, just limp against me. She had nothing left. And she whimpered softly. Babies aren't meant to sleep alone. I wish I had someone I could call. One hour of sleep would have meant everything.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#129

Post by themaninthedark »

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #89
jjulius wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Babies cry for a reason (to get their needs met). Yep. Including, "I woke up and I don't yet know how to put myself back to sleep," which is where "sleep training" helps. I, too, would be curious as someone else asked, if you have children.

Or co-sleeping, where they don't cry before or after

I have two boys 9 and 3. Oldest co-slept with us until his brother was born so until 6yo, even now sometimes he wants to come back to our bed.

The youngest we put in the same room as our oldest after about a year, he rarely wants to sleep with us.

When they were co-sleeping with us, they would still wake up and cry at night from things other then hunger. Including, I rolled over into my parent and it surprised me so I woke up and now I can't sleep.

In the case of my oldest, he started getting to the point where he would only fall asleep if my wife was next to him with her arm under his head like a pillow. It had to be her arm, we once switched so my arm was under his head and he could tell, got upset about it XD. That is when we decided he needed to start sleeping on his own...which took some time. It is also why we choose to have the youngest move out quicker, we didn't want to have the same protracted experience.

Now they will sleep together at the oldest insistence, about a third of the time though the youngest will take too long to fall asleep and they end up fighting and the youngest will go off to sleep on his own.

I don't think any of us in this conversation have any good data on what is best, and those of us that are parents have way to much bias and way too small sample size to discuss this with any degree of confidence.

My personal option is that either way is not going to make much of a difference and you should do what ever works best for you and your family.

Edit: Added a paragraph(#4)

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#130

Post by lazide »

Patrol8394 wrote: post #104

My wife and I did not sleep trained our kids. They co-slept with us, they were happy we were able to sleep through the night. Eventually they transitioned into their own bed no problem. Our neighbors will let their baby cry like forever, it was excruciating and imo pointless.

As with all things, if it is applicable or not requires a comprehensive understanding of the actual situation, the people involved, and fair and balanced judgment and reasonable plan of action that adjusts to circumstances.

It is extremely difficult doing so in a high stress environment.

No 'cry it out' plan I've ever seen or heard of would recommend them crying for a very long time. It's really easy to just give up, at the point many parents find themselves doing sleep training, as it's not something folks want to talk about, and the sleep disruption is likely already been going on for a very long time and they're already exhausted.

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