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What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

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Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#21

Post by mrsubletbot »

robg wrote: post #8

Co-sleeping has much more of a basis in human history. The challenge is transitioning.

My wife and I co-sleep with our kids (2 & 4). I get just about a full sleep every night. If the kids wake up I imagine it's much less work to roll over and cuddle with them as opposed to getting out of bed, going to a separate room and then comforting them. Co-sleeping gets bonus points for giving me just a little extra sweet time with my kids, because before I know it they will be older and wanting their own space. They are only little once.

I would recommend co-sleeping to almost anyone.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#23

Post by jjulius »

pessimizer wrote: post #14
jjulius wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it matter how a family sleeps as long as it works well for the family? Edit: And is it an "obsession" or simply a cultural difference?

> as long as it works well for the family? It's easier for the family when the child is in the room with the parents. At least in the same way it is easier to have a master bathroom rather than one on the other side of the house. > is it an "obsession" or simply a cultural difference? It was an imposed cultural difference. American parents were told they would hurt their children if they slept in the same room with t…

>It's easier for the family when the child is in the room with the parents. At least in the same way it is easier to have a master bathroom rather than one on the other side of the house.

Up to a point, sure. One common scenario is for newborns to sleep in their own crib/basinet/whathaveyou in the parent's room for a short time, before moving into their own room. Many people don't sleep train until their children are at least six months, if not much older. Other parents will keep them in their beds.

I have two children under the age of three and, anecdotally, where and how parents decide to have their children sleep is really all over the board because it boils down to what works best for the family.

And I think it's really stupid, unfair and short-sighted to judge other parents for their decisions in this area.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#24

Post by anon291 »

jjulius wrote: post #7
anon291 wrote: post #6

Part of this is that Americans have an obsession with babies sleeping in another room and in another bed. My family immigrated here and no one ever did that. Children sleep with their parents.

What does it matter how a family sleeps as long as it works well for the family? Edit: And is it an "obsession" or simply a cultural difference?

It's an obsession because pediatricians insist upon it while offering no advice on co sleeping despite that being the most common arrangement worldwide. It's also extremely common in the United States despite parents not admitting to it.

Unfortunately, being given no information, the American parents who cosleep go on blind and don't know what precautions to take.

But yeah, it's an obsession because it's pushed despite the fact the arrangement is incredibly uncommon worldwide.

As for the last question.... I don't care. In fact I ask the same thing when people act as if co sleeping is some great evil

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#25

Post by goldenchrome »

leokennis wrote: post #9
jbirer wrote: post #2

[flagged]

This is a simplistic potshot. If you go to your baby every time it cries that could mean a lot of work, so much it ruins your own rest/health/sanity and makes you a worse parent at the times the baby isn’t crying.

A defenseless child wants nothing more than to sleep next to their parent. Everyone sleeps better.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#26

Post by derbOac »

lazide wrote: post #16
robg wrote: post #8

Co-sleeping has much more of a basis in human history. The challenge is transitioning.

And SIDS.

SIDS research is really difficult to interpret because of issues with medical records and problems with socioeconomic and cultural confounds. So, for example, cosleeping is much more common in immigrant populations and there are a lot of uncontrolled confounds related to access to healthcare, etc. Medical examiners are also hesitant to blame parents often and SIDS is frequently used to avoid assignments of responsibility.

My spouse and I were really surprised by the actual research when we looked closely at it. It's much murkier than is commonly believed.

My experiences in research and with pediatrics has led me to be deeply skeptical of a lot of common claims about infant and child sleep.

I think a healthy dose of caution is warranted but I think a lot of this area is not quite what it seems I initially ( which I think is part of the point of the article).

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#27

Post by jmnicolas »

darrmit wrote: post #12

I'm more interested in the long-term psychological effects of sleep training and how it affects a child's perception of "secure attachment" [1]. We sleep trained our oldest and did not our youngest and their personalities couldn't be more different. Of course, this may be entirely unrelated, but it's still something my wife and I have wondered about as we've learned more about it. [1] https://www.betterhelp.com/advic…

Even cats have wildly different personalities so I don't think sleep training human babies have anything to do with their personalities.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#28

Post by lazide »

voisin wrote: post #19
lazide wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And SIDS.

Source? Everything I’ve read has shown this to be more of an urban legend if anything. Most SIDS deaths related to cosleeping involved alcohol or drugs. SIDS was actually found to be reduced due to breathing regulation matching that of the parent.

https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/1/e20220...

Not that I saw.

The change in sleeping habits due to public health campaigns seems to have cut frequency roughly in half, maybe even as much as 75% depending on how much reach you give the education credit for. Still the #1 cause of death for infants, but a lot less so now.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#29

Post by anon291 »

lazide wrote: post #20
pessimizer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as long as it works well for the family? It's easier for the family when the child is in the room with the parents. At least in the same way it is easier to have a master bathroom rather than one on the other side of the house. > is it an "obsession" or simply a cultural difference? It was an imposed cultural difference. American parents were told they would hurt their children if they slept in the same room with t…

SIDS data shows a (relatively) high occurrence of kids dying by having parents roll over on them, or them getting entrapped/suffocated in bedding. In traditional cultures, this usually gets covered up. Additionally, it’s much harder for the parents or kids to get consistent sleep (often already causing a lot of difficulties during this time), when toddler age kids are in the same area, due to differing schedules. In…

If you and your spouse are of healthy weight and the mother breastfeeds all night and the bed is stripped of heavy bedding and pillows this is unlikely.

I wish doctors would give parents this advice because what happens now is that many American parents will cosleep without admitting it and don't know what to do when they engage in it.

In many traditional cultures, the baby is breastfed all night and the bed is stripped and beds are on the floor. If you do these , sids risk is greatly diminished. Some of the cosleep studies on sids are flawed. They conflate taking a baby onto a couch to sleep with an exhausted mother the same as a breastfeeding mother falling asleep with her child on a flat surface. But Americans are obsessed with cribs so doctors don't give any advice and conflate two unlike things.

https://cosleeping.nd.edu/safe-co-sleeping-guidelines/

https://news.nd.edu/news/infant-co-sleeping-expert-sheds-lig...

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#30

Post by lazide »

derbOac wrote: post #26
lazide wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And SIDS.

SIDS research is really difficult to interpret because of issues with medical records and problems with socioeconomic and cultural confounds. So, for example, cosleeping is much more common in immigrant populations and there are a lot of uncontrolled confounds related to access to healthcare, etc. Medical examiners are also hesitant to blame parents often and SIDS is frequently used to avoid assignments of responsibi…

For sure! Though might be worth reading https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/1/e20220...

Covers most of this. And with education campaigns and shifts in habits, overall mortality not just ‘SIDS’ rates have dropped a lot.

As to risk/reward, long term implications of things, etc. - I don’t know, and I don’t know anyone who reasonably can claim to know, but I also haven’t seen any reason to be concerned overall.

Plenty of bigger, more concerning issues - like lack of healthy socialization among kids, etc. in many environments, reduction in exercise, anxiety issues, social media, etc.

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