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A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

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Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#81

Post by objetovoador »

beebmam wrote: post #63
hammock wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re being downvoted because it sounds like woo but the people downvoting aren’t up to speed on the latest science. Nightshades are tolerated by people with healthy guts and there is a smaller set of people with a gut dysfunction that means the solanine (alkaloids) in nightshades causes leaky gut syndrome leading to the inflammation you are talking about. Curcumin (turmeric) does alleviate this inflammation pretty…

He's being downvoted because "inflammation" is caused by an enormous amount of things. It's not "linked to endotoxins". I tore my MCL and I had inflammation quite shortly afterwards, which likely protected my knee from further injury. Endotoxins had nothing to do with the inflammation I experienced.

I mean it in the context of people who have joint pain that’s not from injury. And yes endotoxins are linked to joint pain:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31653850/

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#82

Post by BrandoElFollito »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #75
ralph84 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry your wife suffers from this. I just wouldn't be so confident that highly paid specialists have time to keep up on the latest research in their field. In my experience most do not. They're highly paid because they see a lot of patients, not because they read a lot of research.

They're highly paid because they see a lot of patients, not because they read a lot of research This just isn't true. A GP (General Practitioner) sees a lot of patients. The only realistic reason you can get seen by a GP in good time is because they tend to leave some slots open for more urgent things: The reason you can't get in to see a specialist on the same day (usually) is because they don't. Specialists get pai…

At least in France a GP (médecin généraliste) sees people for everyday things. The "truly urgent" things are rare, this is what emergency services are for.

Yes they see "urgent" patients that happen to be painfully sick (otitis for instance) and they need to give them well know and predictable medicine (and other such "urgencies" - which I put in quotes not because they are not urgent, but because they are expected and everyday business. If you had an otitis you will know that the pain is unbearable and that you either have to see the MD quick, lose your mind of have your eardrum break).

These GPs will push you towards a specialist in case they detect something abnormal because they do not have the current knowledge to treat you correctly.

For the record - one of my best friends is a GP and their work is terrific. They are a mixture of science, magic voodoo and psychologists to actually manage the everyday health of the whole society. I truly regard them highly.

Also, the amount of hours they do is insane - way too much in my opinion and yet it is so difficult to get an appointment. They are on a strike today, the first as long as I can remember to get their regulated fee to be raised.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#83

Post by PcChip »

kian wrote: post #49
consumer451 wrote: post #3

I was diagnosed with arthritis at a very young age. This was likely due to (at least related to) snowboard straps being too tight around my left ankle. I hobbled every morning for an hour, then a couple hours, then half the day. One day I learned about modifying my diet to avoid inflammation. I greatly limited, but did not entirely eliminate, tomatoes and potatoes in my diet. The effects were literally life changing.…

Can confirm that this also helps for eczema, allergies, asthma, and many other issues associated with inflammation - even weight gain, energy, and digestive issues. Cutting out potatoes, tomatoes, and some of the other nightshade family friends (still love those habaneros, though!) has made a world of difference. Another one, although it is a bit harder to source at the right price, is water. Once you recognize the s…

I feel like the water thing needs explanation

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#84

Post by beagle3 »

oldstrangers wrote: post #66
ralph84 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry your wife suffers from this. I just wouldn't be so confident that highly paid specialists have time to keep up on the latest research in their field. In my experience most do not. They're highly paid because they see a lot of patients, not because they read a lot of research.

It's a legal requirement for doctors to practice continuing education to keep their medical license. It is literally part of their job to "keep up on the latest research."

… but many satisfy this requirement by going to a pharma sponsored convention, which only has a small number of talks (all vetted by the sponsor to be favorable, if not actively marketing for sponsor), and just happens to be in a great resort of some sort.

Those who care, do real continuing education - often on their own time and without asking for official credit.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#85

Post by upsidesinclude »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #76
boplicity wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, this thinking came about through my direct experience as someone seeking treatment for a chronic disease. For the specific disease I have, there are endless studies about various drugs, and very, very few studies about non-drug treatments, many of which are known to be effective in the patient community, but lack enough "studies" to be part of the standard treatments recommended by doctors. Instead, we…

Drugs which are backed by many, many studies, and yet are only around 25% effective after 2 years First things first: Don't you think that if we had better drugs for whatever you have, that we wouldn't go with that in general? (I know there are exceptions that say that we wouldn't, but these are exceptions). Second: 25% effective is better than nothing. I have MS. The first real drugs - all injections with plenty of…

Your tldr pretty well sums up that you are responding about your feelings and not the comment.

In his case there is an alternative. It will never be promoted.

You can limit stress and find many practices and supplements which reduce anxiety and cortisol.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#86

Post by upsidesinclude »

inthepipe wrote: post #52
austinjp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflammation is a crucial part of the body's response to tissue damage, infection, foreign matter, and more. In response, the capillaries become more permeable. This allows white blood cells to leave the blood stream and enter the tissues to combat infection and destroy damaged tissue. The inflammatory response is part of a complex set of self-defense and repair mechanisms. Sometimes these go wrong, but without them…

Tissue damage, infection, foreign matter, etc are all bad. Inflation might help, but I think you’d need to show it’d be helpful without the presence of some worse thing to truly call it beneficial.

Inflammation is part of the immune response. It is beneficial when wounded and that's when the local body should become inflamed.

Chronic inflammation is not beneficial.

You are conflating the two

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#88

Post by inthepipe »

upsidesinclude wrote: post #86
inthepipe wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tissue damage, infection, foreign matter, etc are all bad. Inflation might help, but I think you’d need to show it’d be helpful without the presence of some worse thing to truly call it beneficial.

Inflammation is part of the immune response. It is beneficial when wounded and that's when the local body should become inflamed. Chronic inflammation is not beneficial. You are conflating the two

I’m not conflating anything. You’re saying the inflammation is beneficial, but what you’re describing is really a “lesser of two evils” situation, e.g. it’s better to have inflammation than it is to bleed out from a wound. But the best thing would be not to get a wound in the first place.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#89

Post by objetovoador »

atombender wrote: post #41
hammock wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re being downvoted because it sounds like woo but the people downvoting aren’t up to speed on the latest science. Nightshades are tolerated by people with healthy guts and there is a smaller set of people with a gut dysfunction that means the solanine (alkaloids) in nightshades causes leaky gut syndrome leading to the inflammation you are talking about. Curcumin (turmeric) does alleviate this inflammation pretty…

Note that "leaky gut syndrome" is pseudoscience; there's no such thing recognized by the medical community. What is real is leaky gut, or intestinal permeability. We absolutely know for a fact that some people can have dysfunction of the tight junctions which make up the lining of the intestines. We don't know too much about it, but the idea that bacteria and endotoxins can pass through the gut wall and into the bloo…

> Note that "leaky gut syndrome" is pseudoscience; there's no such thing recognized by the medical community. What is real is leaky gut, or intestinal permeability.

This seems like oversubtle reasoning that cruelly dismisses legitimate suffering from an actual disease process.

You seem to admit there's a convincing scientific basis.

Leaky gut syndrome is pseudoscience but intestinal permeability is real? Ok. It seems like medical science isn't advanced enough to sort out most gut disease, it manifests in somewhat strange and seemingly mysterious ways, and people suffering are left to discuss amongst themselves online in order to find some relief after being shrugged away by doctors (or worse hurt by inappropriate medical procedures/medicines like antibiotics, etc.).

So instead of just condescendingly labelling them anti-science whackos ("pseudoscience"), perhaps we should be compassionate and recognize the condition?

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#90

Post by atombender »

objetovoador wrote: post #89
atombender wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that "leaky gut syndrome" is pseudoscience; there's no such thing recognized by the medical community. What is real is leaky gut, or intestinal permeability. We absolutely know for a fact that some people can have dysfunction of the tight junctions which make up the lining of the intestines. We don't know too much about it, but the idea that bacteria and endotoxins can pass through the gut wall and into the bloo…

> Note that "leaky gut syndrome" is pseudoscience; there's no such thing recognized by the medical community. What is real is leaky gut, or intestinal permeability. This seems like oversubtle reasoning that cruelly dismisses legitimate suffering from an actual disease process. You seem to admit there's a convincing scientific basis. Leaky gut syndrome is pseudoscience but intestinal permeability is real? Ok. It seems…

There's a clear distinction. While leaky gut is a real medical term, it has been misused by people who believe it to be the cause of a multitude of ailments (for which the same community of course offers "detox" advice), with no scientific evidence. You can read more here: https://badgut.org/information-centre/a-z-digestive-topics/l....
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