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AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

fortressofdoors.com

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Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#161

Post by djokkataja »

> Third, that AI technologies won't be perfect substitutes for actual human-to-human contact.

I'm not sure this assumption holds true enough: incredible numbers of humans have already substituted vast swaths of direct human-to-human contact with the gigantic text-only condoms provided by the internet. We've already traded in superior quality human contact for inferior quality contact--for the bonus of more specialized content which we probably wouldn't get if we knocked on our neighbors' doors.

This doesn't necessarily invalidate many of the proposals in this article. But what about the dimensions in which AI provides or will eventually provide a superior substitute to human-to-human contact?

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#162

Post by ls15 »

PeterisP wrote: post #138
ls15 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With cryptographic signatures I could at least verify that something stems from the same account that I previously agreed with, but this would require people to be able to manage their own private keys. Actually nothing would stop people from signing their own comments today and sometimes it is done. With e2ee messengers I feel pretty confident that a message comes from the right / real person after I verified their…

It can't provide confidence that the message comes from the right/real person, because even without any breach of secrets (which happen even to competent people/organizations) all that gives you is confidence that the message comes from someone authorized by that right/real person. It could be another person, or it could be data generated by an automated system to which they gave the credentials for whatever reason -…

> all that gives you is confidence that the message comes from someone authorized by that right/real person.

Which is good enough for many applications, I think. With friends and family, I am pretty confident, that none of them deploy a personal assistant to answer my encrypted messages. As opposed to a messenger where the service provider can inject ads into the messages.

How do I know that a person that I speak to IRL is really saying what they think or even really is who they claim to be if I don't know them well? A rest of uncertainty always remains.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#163

Post by kruxigt »

moffkalast wrote: post #122
angarg12 wrote: post #25

Regarding the Third point, I can already see part of this movement. I've become disenchanted with the quality of the discourse. Specifically as I've entered a more senior stage of my career, I'm looking to mingle with like-minded folks in similar situations. Thing is, these folks don't usually lurk online, and even if they do, their voices get overwhelmed by the flood of (mostly low quality) content. I'd be happy to…

> I'd be happy to pay a fee to become a member of a community with vetted participants You better start believing in vetted online communities Miss Turner, you're in one! It may not be vetting by moderators, but HN's dated frontend definitely acts as a forcefield against many kinds of people.

[dead]

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#164

Post by NoGravitas »

awestroke wrote: post #159
anselm wrote: post #156

Authors making this argument (which we see often now) really need to sketch out why cryptographic solutions will fail. The entire thesis rests on this erroneous sentence in the second point: “This can be done in two ways – just move to invite-only silos where you already know everybody, or big platforms where the owners do the vetting for you.” There are more options. We employ them when we are forced to; when it bec…

So, people start signing their AI-generated messages. What have we gained?

Indeed. SPF and DKIM were supposed to reduce spam by ensuring that every sender was verified. Now, we have more spam than ever, and all the senders are verified (on short-lived garbage domains that are not yet on blocklists). The only DKIM failures I ever see are on legitimate mail from badly set-up lists.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#165

Post by jacooper »

> culture will co-evolve on a much faster timescale. Cultures that prioritize family, community, regular face-to-face human interaction, strong social support networks, and especially those that have a built-in system for helping young people find spouses, will do better than those that don't.

Maybe I'm wrong, but is there any western culture that values these things?

Maybe east US? Texans etc.

I think countries that are accepting eastern migrants will fare better, since eastern culture typically value these things more, thats in addition to solving the aging solution problem, something westerners are not willing to do(having kids, enough kids).

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#166

Post by jakewins »

nataz wrote: post #150
moffkalast wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lobste.rs is what I can find. Likely tries to make its SEO as bad as possible to avoid discovery, which is kinda funny.

Was lobster.rs ways invite only? I thought I remembered having an account a long time ago...but my email isn't registered when I go to reset my PW. Because it's a much smaller community it does suffer from low comment counts on posts. Comments are the best part of HN.

Invite only to write, open to read. But the main trick is tracking the invite tree - if the person that invited you gets banned, you get banned too (or need to appeal to have your “branch” of the invite tree adopted by someone else).

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#167

Post by UncleEntity »

ilikerashers wrote: post #90

The article reads like an internet doomsday prophecy but also, property will go up because the internet will get worse. That is just an odd take and maybe hints that this is a generated article itself.

Not all property.

The old timey neighborhoods where people wave at their neighbors and have things like block parties is what they’re talking about. Communities built around human interaction as opposed to a hundred story apartment building where maybe you can recognize a couple of your neighbors if you saw them on the street.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#168

Post by kolinko »

NoGravitas wrote: post #164
awestroke wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, people start signing their AI-generated messages. What have we gained?

Indeed. SPF and DKIM were supposed to reduce spam by ensuring that every sender was verified. Now, we have more spam than ever, and all the senders are verified (on short-lived garbage domains that are not yet on blocklists). The only DKIM failures I ever see are on legitimate mail from badly set-up lists.

DKIM and SPF are more important for phishing than for spam. Without them, it’s very easy to spoof senders.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#169

Post by Geee »

LeftCorner wrote: post #152
Geee wrote: post #143

The purpose of communication is to distribute and filter information. We don't actually need to communicate. We do it to distribute and filter information. It is currently a very inefficient process. If AI does that for us in the future, all is good and we end up being more efficient. No more time wasted on reading & writing comments on the Internet. AI should be able to pick the most relevant information for you and…

>The purpose of communication is to distribute and filter information. And connect with other people, feel catharsis, to feel less alone, loved, engaged, interested, and the other things that make us human. AI will not give us that and in fact undermine that. Perhaps then AI will push back to the "real world" for these interactions, as the article opines.

There's more time to connect and have fun with people in the real world when less time is spent on reading & writing comments on the Internet.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#170

Post by notadev »

s5300 wrote: post #46
seydor wrote: post #23

The internet is not limited to Social networks. The "Market for lemons" has existed for decade, google is a market for lemons where people buy from SEO spam, Google assistant , Siri , amazon are also. The logging off is a pipe dream for some people, even though they know that humans are informational creatures and that the "offline world" has never lived up to the desirable one since the time books were invented. Doo…

>> Doominess and gloominess is the real disease of our times Seems more like extremely wealthy sociopaths & psychopaths that thrive in a capitalistic system are. Don’t think people would be so doomy & gloomy if it weren’t for those with the means to do so trying to shape society into their dystopian dreams. Two examples if needed: Thiel & Davos family

What about society being shaped in the dreams of other wealthy people, like Karl Schwab or George Soros? Is that OK?
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