72-year-old Congressman pursues a Master's in AI • Hacker News Board

Re: 72-year-old Congressman pursues a Master's in AI

#51

Post by onion2k » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 6:45 AM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #7

A major problem in our society is that '72-year-old' is in the headline. If you are not growing, you are declining or dead. Not only does the world change under your feet, you need that stimulation just to stay healthy. We ruin the talent, economic value, and freedom and opportunity of a very large portion of the population by dimissing the growth of anyone in late middle-age or later. 72 years old shouldn't be remar…

If you are not growing, you are declining or dead.

What's wrong with retiring and living out your last years peacefully relaxing with your hobbies and family? There's absolutely no reason why people have to continually grow until they're in the ground.

You're applying an adage about companies to people, but companies need to fight against inflation, and people don't.

Re: 72-year-old Congressman pursues a Master's in AI

#52

Post by CivBase » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 6:46 AM UTC

chongli wrote: post #39

CivBase wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree. But it's worth pointing out that continued learning is more important than continued accreditation . There's probably not much economic value in a new formal degree past 70 years of age. I'm a little frustrated with how many people seem to treat learning like an activity exclusive to schools. Self-guided learning is extremely valuable.

Self-guided learning is amazing but a lot of people struggle with the discipline involved. Often when you set out to study a topic you’re interested in, you find that it has prerequisites in other areas (such as calculus) that you may not be strong at or even actively avoid studying. For many people this can put an end to their self-guided study. Attending a formal educational institution, on the other hand, has prov…

Sure. I don't mean to downplay the value of educational institutions. I just want to stress that they aren't the only method of learning. Everyone needs some mix of self-guided and instructor-lead learning to succeed.

Re: 72-year-old Congressman pursues a Master's in AI

#53

Post by poulsbohemian » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 6:47 AM UTC

option wrote: post #8

wolverine876 wrote: post #7

A major problem in our society is that '72-year-old' is in the headline. If you are not growing, you are declining or dead. Not only does the world change under your feet, you need that stimulation just to stay healthy. We ruin the talent, economic value, and freedom and opportunity of a very large portion of the population by dimissing the growth of anyone in late middle-age or later. 72 years old shouldn't be remar…

nope. we need much younger politicians. And we need 70+ old guys learn new things just like this politician does.

The way I like to phrase this is, I want politicians at each level to actually represent their constituency.

So for example in my area, given that as much as 40% of the population is hispanic / latino, I'd really like to see more people from that demographic get elected. Likewise, about 50% of the population is female, therefore I want to see more women elected. I even want to see fewer lawyers and more laborers, teachers, etc in elected positions. I'm not convinced that politician should be a career and it definitely should not be the sole domain of old, white, rich lawyers the way that it has been historically. And, regardless of who is elected, I want them to be mentally adept and aim to be educated and informed rather than complacent.

Re: 72-year-old Congressman pursues a Master's in AI

#54

Post by tracer17 » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 6:47 AM UTC

0xdde wrote: post #32

joshlemer wrote: post #26

This may be good for his personal development or growth and understanding but wouldn't his constituents rather he dedicate his time to representing them and their interests in the house of representatives?

Maybe they don't mind him spending a few hours on it each day after he's done with work and would rather he have this more knowledgeable take on relevant legislation.

I'm his constituent and I don't mind at all. I think having some free time is crucial to performing well at all jobs and if he chooses to spend that time on coursework that could give him greater insight into Congressional policy then more power to him.

Re: 72-year-old Congressman pursues a Master's in AI

#55

Post by acituan » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 6:48 AM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #7

A major problem in our society is that '72-year-old' is in the headline. If you are not growing, you are declining or dead. Not only does the world change under your feet, you need that stimulation just to stay healthy. We ruin the talent, economic value, and freedom and opportunity of a very large portion of the population by dimissing the growth of anyone in late middle-age or later. 72 years old shouldn't be remar…

> If you are not growing, you are declining or dead.

Normativity of growth also gives all sorts of inefficiencies, diseases and economic problems.

> Not only does the world change under your feet, you need that stimulation just to stay healthy.

I partially agree with this. You need to keep updating your model of the world not only because the world is changing under your feet, but also your priors are always guaranteed to suck due to inherent limitedness of human computation. That gives us the normativity of self-transendence, which is not the same thing as growth. It also includes shedding dead weight, deconstructing the not-so-useful, or mere re-organization of the existing. A mere appetite for acquiring stuff, even knowledge, does not make it.

The second problem is limiting the framing of the growth within the unit of an individual. Individuals' betterment doesn't sum to the same amount of betterment of the society, in fact it creates tons of waste. A wiser old person's transfer of their skills and perspectives (not propositions, or knowledge) to a younger person would not register with your notion of "personal growth" but nonetheless is a superior betterment at the group level, and thus has a much scalable adaptive value.

Re: 72-year-old Congressman pursues a Master's in AI

#56

Post by echelon » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 6:49 AM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #36

wolverine876 wrote: post #7

A major problem in our society is that '72-year-old' is in the headline. If you are not growing, you are declining or dead. Not only does the world change under your feet, you need that stimulation just to stay healthy. We ruin the talent, economic value, and freedom and opportunity of a very large portion of the population by dimissing the growth of anyone in late middle-age or later. 72 years old shouldn't be remar…

The reality is that most people's mental abilities have started to decline by this age, particularly the capacity to learn new things. That makes this story all the more remarkable. Part of that I think is certainly as you suggest, that the brain is a muscle, you need to use it to keep it fit. But you can't escape nature either. To keep the muscle analogy, you won’t compete as an athlete at 72 no matter how fit you r…

> The reality is that most people's mental abilities have started to decline by this age, particularly the capacity to learn new things.

I agree with the first statement, but more of a function of accumulated metabolic and cognitive dysfunction than merely age.

I don't think the second statement necessarily follows. Time spent fully engrossed in a subject, where the learner is able to put away their ego and learn as a child would, is what is conducive to good learning. That can happen at any age, but in practice, seldom does due to the demanding structure of adult life.

Re: 72-year-old Congressman pursues a Master's in AI

#57

Post by echelon » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 6:49 AM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #49

mindcrime wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To keep the muscle analogy, you won’t compete as an athlete at 72 no matter how fit you remain. I hate to be "pedantic guy", but FWIW there are absolutely 72 year old competitive athletes. They may not be competitive against folks 20+ years younger than themselves, but many people continue to compete in "masters" divisions of various competitive sports until pretty much the day they keel over. Heck, there are folks w…

> They may not be competitive against folks 20+ years younger than themselves that's kind of my point. Of course they can compete against other 72 year olds.

And average 50 year olds.

Re: 72-year-old Congressman pursues a Master's in AI

#58

Post by 2000UltraDeluxe » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 6:50 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #28

wolverine876 wrote: post #7

A major problem in our society is that '72-year-old' is in the headline. If you are not growing, you are declining or dead. Not only does the world change under your feet, you need that stimulation just to stay healthy. We ruin the talent, economic value, and freedom and opportunity of a very large portion of the population by dimissing the growth of anyone in late middle-age or later. 72 years old shouldn't be remar…

> 72 years old shouldn't be remarkable, but the norm. Having neither of my parents even make it to 72, I’m pessimistic. I hope I will be lucky that my health allows me to keep learning and doing cool stuff at that age (and that I’m actually alive), but the sad reality is that health and genetics can be against us, and being in a healthy thriving state at 72 is more an exception than the norm.

I consider anything past 70 to be a bonus.

If I make it for a few more years than that and I feel like studying, then why not? I mean, I probably won't want to, but if that guy want to study then good on him!

Re: 72-year-old Congressman pursues a Master's in AI

#59

Post by rapind » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 6:51 AM UTC

option wrote: post #14

kenjackson wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious. Why do we need much younger politicians?

because people deteriorate mentally and physically with age.

Sure, but you still need to consider the individual and not paint an entire demographic as “less than”. To do otherwise is prejudice. Ageism in this case.

It’s also factual that wealth greatly impacts education, but we wouldn’t want to suggest poor people are unfit for office due to this disadvantage right?

My parents are into their 70s and I have yet to detect even the slightest mental degradation.

Re: 72-year-old Congressman pursues a Master's in AI

#60

Post by themodelplumber » Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 6:51 AM UTC

jrumbut wrote: post #24

themodelplumber wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These aspects will start to come back into vogue as broader societal progress stabilizes at its new levels, and institutional forces internalize conflict. There will be a new norm of politician who is less of a laughingstock and more of a quality leader who looks into things in a qualitative way. It'll still be a politician who will need to know the game though. In a post-Trump world you can generally expect the retu…

Care to expand on the unwanted factors? This is an interesting post and I want to hear more.

The currently new core of cultural values will solidify and there will be some new level of general practice to act on those values. IOW values will fall in line in a general way as they usually do, once the battle lines fade.

Diehards will be way more awkward and will fade as attention moves away from them. These were never quality positions in the first place though.

You'll probably see new silent generation(s) come about, and conspiracies in government will return to their archetypally stable form, as tacit agreements to preserve a given form of stability.

(The recent wacky-conspiracy-theory trend provided wonderful cover for the boring way conspiracies actually form and operate, being mostly without much conscious control and generally in favor of more-of-desired-brand-of-stability rather than chaos)

It will take unity to accomplish what's ahead, just as it took diversity to accomplish the most recent changes in culture and fight the accompanying battles. It will take persistent unity to take on government corruption. Waste there will become a bigger issue than we know now. And not along old party lines. The old ways of making noise will no longer work as well, but the new ways will work in favor of smart people and loud people getting together.

This will all develop in waves, it's not a one-and-done but rather a trending vein or wave process.

The biggest challenges will be centered around questions of who we want to be as humans, and whether we really believe in the desired-unknown as a body, or if we still think we are suckers for believing in developmental progress. If the latter we will get more of the undesired-unknown (recent chaos) in disguise as the desired-known (icons of the past).

Anecdotally one will still be able to see whatever one needs to see in government to reflect preferred perspectives, mask one's own blindspots, etc. But more objectively speaking there should be clear, solid trends like these that can probably be charted or tracked in a reliable way.

(This is subjective-probabilistic speculation based on my professional background with individual and group archetypes & personality development. There's always a chance I'm 150% wrong)