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A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

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Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#41
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC inflammation is linked to endotoxins produced by bacteria in the gut. Apparently curcumin has a good reputation for helping people with inflammatory conditions like that. And it's been proposed that it yields positive benefits by modulating the gut rather than being bioactive (curcumin is famously not bioactive).

You’re being downvoted because it sounds like woo but the people downvoting aren’t up to speed on the latest science. Nightshades are tolerated by people with healthy guts and there is a smaller set of people with a gut dysfunction that means the solanine (alkaloids) in nightshades causes leaky gut syndrome leading to the inflammation you are talking about. Curcumin (turmeric) does alleviate this inflammation pretty…

Note that "leaky gut syndrome" is pseudoscience; there's no such thing recognized by the medical community. What is real is leaky gut, or intestinal permeability.

We absolutely know for a fact that some people can have dysfunction of the tight junctions which make up the lining of the intestines. We don't know too much about it, but the idea that bacteria and endotoxins can pass through the gut wall and into the bloodstream is established fact at this point. "Endotoxin" has the sound of a pseudoscientific word, but it simply refers to the lipopolysaccharides that bacteria use to build their outer membranes.

People with some autoimmune diseases have been found to have circulating endotoxins and other bacterial byproducts in their peripheral blood, though the process (bacterial translocation) and the mechanism by which these affect the body are both poorly understood. There's been very little research into what processes can cause intestinal permeability and gut dysbiosis in autoimmune patients. For example, it's unclear if it's the cause of the autoimmunity (permeability leading to SIBO-like bacterial overload leading to an aberrant immune response), or if the autoimmune disease causes it (systemic inflammation leading to permeability).

I've not seen any peer reviewed evidence about nightshades or glycoalkaloids. There's some research on curcumin and quercetin that's interesting.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are no scientific studies If this treatment could be turned into a drug that had billions of dollars in revenue, as some arthritis drugs have, then there would be endless studies. Sadly, that's not the world we live in. "Lack of studies" in many cases is code for "there's no money to be made here." This is too bad, because many extremely effective and effectively free treatments are ignored by scientists beca…

> If this treatment could be turned into a drug that had billions of dollars in revenue, as some arthritis drugs have, then there would be endless studies. This is a thought-terminating cliche. It's entirely possible nobody has studied it yet. It's also worth pointing out that drug companies have no incentive to research subtractive diets. They want to find additive treatments that keep symptoms at bay.

> It's also worth pointing out that drug companies have no incentive to research subtractive diets.

maybe i'm a bad reader but i believe that's what the person you're replying to is saying

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#43
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably already know this, but for the benefit of others: it is very possible to kill yourself if you do this wrong. The vagus nerve (or its mirror on the opposite side of your face, I forget, it's been a while since I worked on this and I've never particularly wanted to revisit it) is involved in pacing your heart. Screw it up and you can end up very dead of cardiac arrest. So be careful trying this stuff at ho…

You can avoid the potential for death by slow exhalations and other breathing techniques that have been shown to stimulate the vagus nerve.

Would you have a source for this?

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#44
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also let's also keep in mind not all inflammation is bad. As an anecdote, I know someone who had rosacea breakout and ended up eliminating tomatoes in particular from her diet and it seemed to do the trick so there should be something in tomatoes that causes inflammation...

What is an example of good inflammation?

Inflammation which is completely normal after a hard gym session

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflammation helps fight infection of any kind. You know fever? That's your body heating up to wean off infection. When you tear a muscle or a tendon, inflammation helps blood to flow into the affected areas, speeding up the healing process. Inflammation is one of the tools your immune system has to keep you in good health. Too much of it can have bad side-effects though, which is why we need to keep it under control…

Ok, I was imagining some food-induced inflammation since that was the context. Is there some healthy inflammation that comes from food vs the body’s natural immune response?

i believe there's some inflamation and immune system response anytime you introduce foreign bodies, including when you eat.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it could be placebo effect, but the thinking is/was that: > Nightshade Vegetables > Eggplants, peppers, tomatoes and potatoes are all members of the nightshade family. These vegetables contain the chemical solanine, which some people claim aggravates arthritis pain and inflammation. However, most reports are anecdotal, and while it certainly might be true for some people, there are no scientific studies done to…

> there are no scientific studies If this treatment could be turned into a drug that had billions of dollars in revenue, as some arthritis drugs have, then there would be endless studies. Sadly, that's not the world we live in. "Lack of studies" in many cases is code for "there's no money to be made here." This is too bad, because many extremely effective and effectively free treatments are ignored by scientists beca…

I believe there has been decades of study around diabetes (limit sugar), cardiovascular disease, (limit sat fat), skin cancer (limit sun) and so on. Why is it hard to believe the incentives for simple subtractive prevention isn't there (e.g. limit tomatoes)? More likely the ailment isn't one of the top X deadly things yet.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#47
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can avoid the potential for death by slow exhalations and other breathing techniques that have been shown to stimulate the vagus nerve.

Would you have a source for this?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6189422/

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#48
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can avoid the potential for death by slow exhalations and other breathing techniques that have been shown to stimulate the vagus nerve.

Would you have a source for this?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201...

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#49

I was diagnosed with arthritis at a very young age. This was likely due to (at least related to) snowboard straps being too tight around my left ankle. I hobbled every morning for an hour, then a couple hours, then half the day. One day I learned about modifying my diet to avoid inflammation. I greatly limited, but did not entirely eliminate, tomatoes and potatoes in my diet. The effects were literally life changing.…

Can confirm that this also helps for eczema, allergies, asthma, and many other issues associated with inflammation - even weight gain, energy, and digestive issues. Cutting out potatoes, tomatoes, and some of the other nightshade family friends (still love those habaneros, though!) has made a world of difference.

Another one, although it is a bit harder to source at the right price, is water. Once you recognize the signs of sudden-onset inflammation, however subtle, when you remove and then try the above foods, it is worth seeing if you are having the same reaction to your water -- in my case, it changed me from a chronically dehydrated person who had to prep his day's water next to him to force himself to drink to someone who will literally get up and go across town to fetch more if there isn't enough in the house without it even feeling like it's taking effort or motivation.

It makes a huge difference to your mental clarity, as well.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#50
post #49

I was diagnosed with arthritis at a very young age. This was likely due to (at least related to) snowboard straps being too tight around my left ankle. I hobbled every morning for an hour, then a couple hours, then half the day. One day I learned about modifying my diet to avoid inflammation. I greatly limited, but did not entirely eliminate, tomatoes and potatoes in my diet. The effects were literally life changing.…

Can confirm that this also helps for eczema, allergies, asthma, and many other issues associated with inflammation - even weight gain, energy, and digestive issues. Cutting out potatoes, tomatoes, and some of the other nightshade family friends (still love those habaneros, though!) has made a world of difference. Another one, although it is a bit harder to source at the right price, is water. Once you recognize the s…

Just what sort of water are you drinking?
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